Juan Carlos - Duke of Athens?

I understand that one of the King of Spain's numerous titles is Duke of
Athens, dating from the Middle Ages.

pierre_aronax...

Does JC still have it or when he married Sophia of Greece did he give it
up so not to offend the Greeks?

Yannis...

I think he still has it. Never heard of him giving it up so as not to
offend the Greeks.

pierre_aronax...

I was wondering if we can not find here a better claimant for this
ducal crown than King John Charles (who has enough virtual crowns
without this one). After all, the Catalan dukes were just intruders.
Who would be today the heir of the Frankish Dukes of Athens who ruled
the Acropolis from 1204 to 1311?

Frank Johansen...

Well, I don't think the succession rules to the title "Duke of Athens"
were particularty clear. However, if you start here
and apply male-preffered primogeniture (á la Spaina and the UK), you
seem to end up with Infanta Alicia, Dowager Duchess of Calabria...

Frank H. J.

Is the reason the Greek heir is Duke of Sparta and not Duke of Athens
because the Spaniards had the title?

George Lucki...

Absolutely. Many marriages occur according to all the formal rules but would
turn out to be invalid if one of the parties was secretly coerced or had no
ability or desire to keep the marital promises, etc. Decrees of nullity
(annulments) are often made for licit but invalid Catholic marriages.

Joseph McMillan...

Thanks, that's very helpful. That's what I was going to guess, but I
wasn't sure.

Joseph McMillan

George Lucki

Yannis...

"Duke of Sparta" was created in 1868 for Crown Prince Constantine. I
think (although I'm not sure) that it was at the express demand of the
citizens of Sparta who is one of the most royalist regions in Greece
even to this day. I don't think the title "Duke of Athens" was
considered and rejected. Do a search in the archives of the group for
Duke of Sparta, there's a lot been posted about it in the past.

Did Sophia have to give up any claim to the Greek throne when she
married JC?

Yannis...

I don't know if she "had to", but she did give them up.

When JC was married in an Orthodox ceremony was there also a Catholic
one?

Yannis...

Yes.

Who gave JC a dispensation to get married in an Orthodox ceremony? The
Pope or a Spanish prelate?

Yannis...

I don't think you need a dispensation. I think the Orthodox ceremony is

George Lucki...

Today Catholics need a dispensation to marry in an Orthodox ceremony so
that the marriage can be considered valid from a Catholic point of view
(without any Catholic ceremony): was it not possible at the time?

pierre_aronax...

out

pierre_aronax...

Indeed: I was confuse here. Thanks for the correction.

My question stands however: was it not possible to get a dispensation
and have only one ceremony?

pierre_aronax...

not recognised by the Catholic church, but the Orthodox church
recognises the Catholic one. So, I think they had the Orthodox wedding
first and then the Catholic one since otherwise the Orthodox church
would already have considered them married and consequently refused to
marry them again. But I might be wrong and it may be the other way
round.