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Claims of Royal Descent
8 Sep 2006 17:32:58 -0700
alt.talk.royalty
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leadergray...
Drew...
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Except, shift one way or the other with a single ancestor and
Charlemagne is no longer your great grandfather. In fact, assuming you
are using Ancestry.com or similar, you might find that you never get
out of colonial America with family history. As you said yourself, you
can trace back to Charlemagne through 2 people from the 1600s. Once in
Europe, there are probably several selections you could have made where
the line goes cold yet again. I know this through personal experience.
Further, demonstrating that, at least with records, it's awful hard to
prove a link to Charlemagne...even going back from 1600s Europe.
Patrick Cracroft-Brennan...
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I'm not sure this statement is true, Drew.
You only have to look at the various volumes of Ruvigny's "Blood
Royal" to realise that there are an awful lot of people who have a
descent from the Plantagenet monarchs - I have about 12 - in the late
19th century this was estimated at around 100,000 and it will be a
lot, lot more today.
As you will appreciate, descent from the Plantagenets, gives you
descent from the Capetians, and from them and from the Saxon dukes,
descents from Charlemagne.
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Drew...
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And, only 8 families, just 16 people, could start generations of
offspring that never interesected with Charlemagne's. Add to this the
fact that Charlemagne's offspring were more apt to parent offspring
with other royals, and it's not hard to imagine that the line of
Hovite...
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After a few generations, the descendants of Charles were mainly merely
counts.
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descendants is easily much narrower than 1 billion people. Of course,
the proof is dependant upon anyone who wants to claim otherwise..and
they generally don't have much to go on.
Patrick Cracroft-Brennan...
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Patrick Cracroft-Brennan
Editor - Cracroft's Peerage
The Complete Guide to the British Peerage & Baronetage
======================================================
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In my French Civilization class a visiting lecturer mentioned that
there are "numerous" people in France who claim royal descent in social
situations. They don't claim to be pretenders to the throne but they
do claim descent from former monarchs. I thought that nearly all
descendents - even the illegitimate ones - were well-documented and
accounted for? If someone made claims like that in the UK or the US
they would most likely be challenged ... are royal claims not normally
disputed in France?
gro...
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Not if they are valid, and millions would be.
It was estimated by an erudite source in the 1960's that at the time
there were approximately 100,000 living descendants of Edward III.
Today there could easily be twice that many.
Only a small fraction of all descendants of monarchs are
well-documented and accounted for. I would be very surprised if
Charlemange's did not number well into the millions.
gro...
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Oops, I meant to say, I would be surprised if Charlemagne's descendants
did not number into the hundreds of millions.
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ScottyFLL...
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Edward III's descendants apparently number in the millions. See here
I've been able to trace back to Edward III through 4 of his 13 children
(through both Lionel of Antwerp and John of Gaunt -- see Edward III
link above -- as well as Edmund and Thomas).
The problem in genealogy for Americans is getting back to a point where
we find a titled individual -- once we do that, the documentation is
plentiful. It took me years to get back to 1600s Massachusetts. When
I did, I was able to link my ancestress Hester Cogswell to Lady Diana
Spencer (through different husbands). I worked back then through the
earls Spencer and the Windsor line, then forward again and found even
more connections.
I've heard it said that most Continental Europeans descend from
gro...
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Other than the assumption of socially random mating, what unwarranted
gro...
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Other than the assumption of socially random mating (and I don't think
that is there explicitly), what unwarranted assumptions do you see?
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assumptions do you see?
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Charlemagne, and most Englishmen descend from William the Conqueror.
I've heard it said that Englishmen take descent from William for
granted -- many are able to trace it, but that doesn't mean those who
can't trace back that far are NOT descended.
It's my opinion that most of us with European ancestry are related. A
number of people have given me some basic knowledge of their genealogy,
and I've been able to connect to them with a little research (which is
MUCH easier now with the internet).
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