Gentlemen/Lords of the Bedchamber

Does anyone know if the title Gentleman of the Bedchamber was the same
as Lord of the Bedchamber? I've come across some of the peers in
Burke's to be listed as one and then another site to list them as the
other and vice-versa. The duties seem to be the same but with such a
great difference in title, why would peers be listed as mere gentlemen?

Yvonne Demoskoff...

The terms Gentlemen of the Bedchamber and Lords of the Bedchamber can
be considered interchangeable, because Gentlemen of the Bedchamber
were usually lords or peers (Barons, Viscounts, Earls, Marquesses and
Dukes), with some sons of peers (Honourables and Lords) and some
knights.

*Office-Holders in Modern Britain: XI - Officials of the Royal
Household 1660-1837* (compiled by J.C. Sainty and R.O. Bucholz,
London: University of London Institute of Historical Research, 1997)
mentions only Gentlemen of the Bedchamber (mostly peers) and Grooms of
the Bedchamber (mostly untitled men (no peers), with some sons of
peers (Honourables and Lords) and some knights.)

On the other hand, *The Royal Household* (by W.A. Lindsay, London:
Kegan Paul, Trench, Trübner & Co. Ltd., 1898) mentions
Lords-in-Waiting (who were known as such when appointed to a female
Sovereign like Queen Victoria, but known as Lords of the Bedchamber
when appointed to male Sovereigns) and Grooms-in-Waiting.

The differences in ranks and duties of both offices (Gentlemen/Lords
and Grooms) meant differences in salaries: £702 each for the former
and £334 each for the latter (at least during Queen Victoria's reign
in the 1890s).

Patrick Cracroft-Brennan...

Don't forget that up until the reign of Queen Victoria the Lords and
Ladies of the Bedchamber were political appointments.

Graham Truesdale...

As opposed to the offices which ceased to be political in 1924?

Patrick Cracroft-Brennan
Editor - Cracroft's Peerage
The Complete Guide to the British Peerage & Baronetage
======================================================

Craigy...

Yeah I know these were poltical until the so-called Bedchamber Crisis.
But were the offices the same as one another?

Candide...

No, Lords and Grooms of the Bedchamber are two different offices.

Lords of the Bedchamber as Ladies in Waiting are exactly that "lords and
ladies" that is to say they are peers (in the case of the ladies, more
correct to say married to peers, but still). In waiting on the sovereign
there was a strict hierarchy in that nobles "waited" upon HM. Servants
such as Grooms of the Bedchamber, pages, dressers, etc would do the
fetching and hand whatever to a noble lord or lady, who in turn would
hand it to the monarch. It was a very complicated arrangement and could
vary by monarch. Backstairs pages would sometimes be allowed to put a
queen's shoes on, but a lady would hand HM her fan.

Lords of the Bedchamber like Ladies in Waiting are/were expected to
guard access to the king or queen, and also provide company when same
dined alone. Until recently, and perhaps still going on for all I know,
one did not address the king or queen directly, even if employed within
the household unless one was high up on the food chain, that is a Lord
or Lady waiting upon HM. If a groom or any other lower ranking person
had something to say, it was said to the next person above them, and
passed on up the channel. Princess May of York found out that her
children were being abused by a psycho nanny only after a nursemaid
confided to the cook, who in turn told the Duchess of York's lady in
waiting, who then presumably told HRM. As nursemaid to her children,
"Lala" was in contact most every day with the Dss of York, but it was
not done for a "servant" to address royalty directly unless spoken to
first.

In an other era when nobility was not expected to work, holding offices
at court was not only a means of funds, but the access to the monarch
and or their consort provided a means to get on. Thus even if The Duke
of Sheepshank's only duty was to hand the king a silver bowl with warm
water each morning to wash his hands, you can bet the duke guarded the
position fiercely.

Grooms of the Bedchamber were not exactly "common" commoners, many were
knights or lower nobility, just as maids of honour for a queen were
daughters of lower nobility, knights or of "the very best families".

Think of it this way, as monarchs are at the top, HM's peers are those
deemed worthy to be within close proximity to the sovereign. Remember
one usually became a peer by performing services for the monarch. This
could be anything from carrying out a secret mission, to allowing the
king to bed one's wife.

Reached into my stash of bookmarks and found this for you, it should
keep you occupied for awhile: