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Teck, situation at the Court of Austria [Prague, Bohemia]
1 Jun 2006 02:05:02 -0700
alt.talk.royalty
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Quoted from:
Cascading errors at .. [the] "Royal Ark"
Message:
susuha...@hotmail.co.uk 09 :49
.. Furthermore, unless Austrians .. go about claiming that
*everyone* of .. Austrian descent who went abroad and changed
[abroard]
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their names, and their descendants, are ALL masquerading under false
names, they have a problem at the heart of their argument ..
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As long as the Teck are not extinct they have to be listed under the
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Houses, who did hold rank at the courts (despite they - 1913 - were not
Austrian nationals) at said court
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the Houses of the courts of Vienna, Budapest, etc (of the House of
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Austria). As the House of Austria - if it pleased such - could hold
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court at Prague, there is no reason that they should not be included in
the Gotha actually publishd in Prague (under the title ..), published
in Bohemian language. If the House of Teck (in the United Kingdom:
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Cambridge) is extinct it can still be listed (small letters) in this
Gotha published in Prague. Of course in () their German, British
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titles; these are of no matter in this thread (Teck, situation at the
Court of Austria [Prague, Bohemia]).
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Simplified expressed. The members of the House of Teck have /had three
different visiting cards!
In France they would use the one, that pleased at the moment; the card
would not necessarily be in French.
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Guy Stair Sainty...
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Both families continued to be listed in the Gotha under Battenberg (until
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1939)and Teck (1937 (the part 3 princely and ducal families did not appear every
year, and after Germany & GB declared war no British families were included
thereafter). The entries were headed "Battenberg (Mountbatten)" and "Teck
(Cambridge)". Each entry enumerated their German titles and the dates of
creation, then ended with the statement that the head of the family was
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"ci-devant (formerly) Duc de Teck" (or "Prince de Battenberg") and that (in the
case of Teck, for example, with a similar entry for Battenberg) "En vertu d'une
autorisation roy. brit. du 16 juill. 1917 toud les membres de cette maison ont
adopte le nom de Cambridge". No mention is made of any renunciation or
relinquishment of the German titles.
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Austria /Bohemia, not a part of Germany, what the Gotha writes or wrote
a just a grocery's business. In which one may or not believe!
Radu Bogdan...
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And we have to presume that what _you_ write is never a "grocery's
business", "in which one may or not believe" ? Well, in several cases,
I'm afraid you're asking for too much credentials.
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There were of course "credential", from Berlin. Beyond Prussia's,
Germany's Southern border a non valeur!
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Graham Truesdale...
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Did they solemnly refer to members born after 1917 (like Lord Louis
Mountbatten's daughters) as Prince[ss]?
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Guy Stair Sainty...
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No, they use their british titles, with a note (under Battenberg) that "les
membres de cette famille, qui sont sujets Britanniquees, ont abandonee leur
titre allemand de "prins (Prizessin) von Battenberg" avec la qualification
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d'Alt. Seren. et adopte, par autorisation roy. brit. du 1er juill 1917, le nom
de Mountbatten".
As one may see, neither renounced, nor relinquished, but "abandoned".
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The phrase "ont abandonn=E9 leur titre allemend de ..." is most
simply translated as "gave up their German titles".
Nevertheless, for those wishing to see alternatives please consult:
Even if one were to translate the word "abandonn=E9" as
"abandon" and nothing else, my "humble" Oxford English dictionary
defines that word as:
give up, yield up, surrender, forsake, relinquish.
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One has of course to start with German edition of the Gotha
(Battenberg, Teck worded differently?), who's lingua Germanica may not
at all have been legal German. Furthermore never forget the Gotha, now
GHdA, is a grocer's product. Suchone has only in mind to please the
Houses, i.e. the buyers. Then and now! If one quotes it is always at
one's own risk
susuhanan...
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I completely agree with you and certainly do not take everything it
says at face value. Indeed, I am having to go through and check every
single date on Turkey and convert them again from the original Hijra
dates, because nearly every one given in the Gotha is wrong.
Alas, I was merely replying to the mistaken view about the meaning of
the quoted text.
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Christopher Buyers
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Not just "in the United Kingdom" but everywhere where British passports
were used, which is just about anywhere in the world.
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I dare say that if one did enough digging, one would also find multiple
entries into and out of places like Austria and Germany themselves. The
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A Cambridge shows a consul his passport and asks for a visa. The consul
will normally not check who Cambridge's really is, what his background
is. Cambridge enters the foreign country as Cambridge and not Teck!
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Whether they check or not is neither here nor there. If they accept a
person into their country on a particular passport, and do not
challenge it at any time during the visit, afterwards or at any time,
then clearly that is the legal personality of the individual that state
has recognised.
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Cambridge may furthermore have obtained British nationality. He is now
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Mr Cambridge with a British title, but still has a rank at the Austrian
court, who might know but will ignore that the .. of Teck is now in the
United Kingdom a .. of Cambridge.
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Well, there isn't now and wasn't any Austrian court by the time that
free travel to that country was resumed by British subjects.
If however, the old Hapsburg court still did happen to exist
*somewhere* one assumes the same little army of secret police would
have still been operating, and be well aware about 'who was who'.
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If a Teck, in the United Kingdom: Cambridge, one sees they have in the
meantime become extinct, would have joined after 1918 a marriage of the
House of Austria they would taken the place of their rank. The rank
would be between Poniatoswki (of 1950) and Montenuovo. They would have
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I doubt it.
The 2nd Duke of Teck served as British Military attach=E9 at Vienna
1904-1909. I doubt if his court rank, or that of his wife, was anything
different from his British diplomatic rank.
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pleased everybody arriving in a British uniform, wearing British
orders, and being unable to speak any German word. English, French
would do very well. The little army would of course have known were to
stop.
Order of ranking of families was never in the hand of petty people.
(If a Mountbatten would have showed up he would have recceived the rank
he holds in the United Kingdom; one would have been very pleased if he
would not use the name Battenberg).
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governments of those countries, by accepting them on those passports,
recognised their legal personalities as Cambridge too.
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