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Which European Monarchs still create hereditary titles?
28 Sep 2006 00:53:42 -0700
alt.talk.royalty
previous
marquess...
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I know that the King of Spain, still creates Dukes and so on, which
Turenne...
Turenne...
Turenne...
other european monarchs, still hand out hereditary titles? Do they do
it in Belguim? I know that in Sweden they haven't done so since 1902,
marquess...
and in Norwary they never got started. What about Holland and Luxubourg?
A. Gwilliam...
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Regarding Norway:
In over a thousand years of history there have never been any
hereditary titles? Not even under the Danish kings?
Dag T. Hoelseth...
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Of course. We had nobility both in medieval times and under the
Dano-Norwegian kings, but most families were untitled. It seems that
"marquess" is actually asking about nobility (but only titled, not
untitled!) outside the royal houses. Norway has of course had hereditary
titles within the royal house (prince/princess).
A. Gwilliam...
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I suspect he or she actually meant post-1905. But since that was never
stated...
Dag T. Hoelseth...
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The Constitution of 1814 said that "The King may bestow orders upon whomever
he pleases, as a reward for distinguished services, and such orders must be
publicly announced, but no rank or title other than that attached to any
office." (Art. 23 first paragraph first sentence) and "No personal, or
mixed, hereditary privileges may henceforth be granted to anyone" Art. 23
second paragraph), while art. 108 says that "No earldoms, baronies, entailed
estates or fideicommissa may be created in the future". In other words, the
only (hereditary) titles allowed were "prince" or "princess" for members of
the royal house (cf. Art. 34 pre-1990). 1905 is of little importance in this
regard, as the only change was that one dynasty was replaced by another and
Norway achieved full independence. In 1821 an act was passed abolishing the
nobility (with the priveleges).
A. Gwilliam...
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I wondered if 1814 might come into things; I have a notion that the
constitution was somewhat "modern". But my ignorance of Norwegian
history is probably very apparent!
It's just struck me that the situation in Norway for the century or so
prior to 1905 was roughly similar to that of Hungary under the Dual
Monarchy. Would you consider that to be a fair assessment? Or perhaps
it's true more in theory than in practice?
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That aside:
Firstly, you said "most" families, which implies that there were at
least a rare few outside the royal family?
Dag T. Hoelseth...
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There were numerous noble families, either created or confirmed under the
Dano-Norwegian kings, but the vast majority were not titled.
A. Gwilliam...
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And secondly, am I right in understanding you that a typical nobleman
in Norway would therefore have a social rank or status, wouldn't have a
formal title, but would presumably have been addressed in a specific
manner?
Dag T. Hoelseth...
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I am actualy not sure how the untitled noblemen and women were addressed,
but with their status certain priveleges (like tax exemption) went along.
A. Gwilliam...
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Not surprising.
I'm not getting any sense of the nobility "advising" the king, either
because he wanted it or because they decided he needed it. Assuming
this did happen, I take it that it was generally on an ad hoc basis?
I'm pretty much thinking of the mediaeval era, of course.
And thanks for the responses so far.
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A. Gwilliam...
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Wikipedia is beginning to impress me more and more with the scope of
its coverage. I shall leave aside commenting on its accuracy!
Anyway, thanks for the link; I shall bookmark it for later reading.
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pierre_aronax...
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Belgium and Spain.
Luxembourg and United Kingdom for members of the reigning family.
marquess...
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Yes that is correct I was referring to titled nobility, perhaps some
one could tell me, is it possible to be made a count, baron or duke in
Denmark, moreover, who was the last dutch commoner, granted a title..
Secondly are there any members of the Dutch nobility who hold the rank
of Prince or Marquis? I know that the Duke of Wellington is prince of
Waterloo, and that the earl of Clancarty is marquis of Huesden, in the
dutch nobility?
Also I heard that San Marino grants titles, but they are not worth
much, doesn't the Prince of Leistenstein give out titles?
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Hovite...
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In Britain, many commoners have been awarded hereditary titles during
the present reign. Recent creations include the Earl of Stockton (1984)
and Viscount Tonypandy (1983).
A. Gwilliam...
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"many" commoners?
And both of your examples were people who had held a constitutionally
significant office. I doubt we'll ever see this happen again even
though it was "the done thing" in the past.
Don Aitken...
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Don't forget that "the present reign" has been quite a long one. Well
over a hundred hereditary peerages were created between 1952 and 1964.
A. Gwilliam...
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Okay. But in a reign that's lasted for over fifty years, it's
misleading to take something that really only happened in the first ten
marquess...
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Lets leave out the titles in British system that is not what I am
interested in, as we can all pick up a copy of Burkes or Debretts. What
I am interested in are those titles created by the continental royals.
For which there are no reference books in English that I pick up!
pierre_aronax...
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<=2E..>
Here a list I made four years ago of the titles conferred by
John-Charles I, the present King of Spain:
The list is in no way exhaustive and I hoped at the time somebody more
knowledgeable in the subject would have completed it, but nobody seemed
really interested at the time.
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as being represenative of the reign as a whole.
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