Grand Duke of Hesse; supposed visit to Russia during World War I

I have no particular interest in stirring up the horrific hornets' nest

Guy Stair Sainty...

And continued to be so until the early 19th century. If one is going to include
the small villages (some of them quite a coach journey from either Westminster

GR...

Hmm... What do you mean by "Paris"? The city as it was at the time or
including the satellite villages and towships which were eventually
absorbed into it? Paris only, meaning the town intra muros, had a
population of 300 000 around 1600.

Pierre

Unfortunately it is not possible to compare like with like. By around 1600
the population of London had long expanded beyond the confines of the
ancient walled City, essentially straggling westwards along the old Roman
road and the banks of the Thames towards Westminster, the seat of government
The population of Paris remained far longer within its mediaeval walls. The
"Atlas de Paris" for 1637 indicates for that year a population growth to
415,000, still within a land area of 4.3 square kilometres, giving a
population density of 96,512 persons per square kilometre. (Even in 1790,
when Paris had expanded to 34.5 square kilometres, the city's first Census
only indicates a population of 524,186 - reducing, however, the population
density to 15,205 persons per square kilometre, a figure lower than it is
today.)

or London proper) then why not include the villages that surrounded Paris, as
well as Versailles, Saint Germain, etc?

that is the Anna Anderson matter, but I did want to ask about the
specific issue of the supposed trip by Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig to
Russia in 1916, which forms a significant part of the pro-Anna Anderson
narrative.

I have two questions on the subject.

1) Did this trip actually take place? Various people seem to state it
as fact, but others have said it was just something made up by Anna
Anderson. Surely if such a trip took place, there would be actual
records of it in the German and/or Russian archives, right? If there
are no records of it in the German and/or Russian archives, the fact
that various royal family members asserted that it took place wouldn't
be taken seriously by anyone, would it? So is this something which is
accepted by historians as having actually occurred, or is it something
which was made up by Anderson and her supporters?

mjcar...

According to Peter Kurth's 'Anastasia', the German official records
were examined during the Anderson court case at Hamburg in the 1960s;
they confirmed that the Grand Duke was at the western front during the
time of his alleged visit to Russia, but their accuracy was called into
question by Mrs Anderson's lawyers (unsurprisingly). The judgment, for
what it is worth, included obiter to the effect that the visit was
unproven. I have yet to see a better summary than that presented by Mr
Kurth.

jlkenney...

So, in conclusion, there is no documentary evidence for this supposed
visit?

mjcar...

There is no contemporary documentary evidence of which I am aware. If
any had been discovered during Anna Anderson's lifetime I am sure it
would have been produced as it would have been a powerful item in her

GR...

I wasn't reallt thinking of what was later to be termed "Metroland", with
the advent of the Metropolitan Railway in the 19th Century.
If one draws an arc roughly centred on London Bridge, with its diameter
running from Blackfriars Bridge in the west and the Tower to the east, that
would cover approximately the "Square Mile" of the City of London within its
mediaeval walls. However, London had long extended beyond those walls, and
by 1600 the name encompassed satellite hamlets, manors and villages such as
Bloomsbury, Southwark, Charing, Westminster, Chelsea, Lambeth, part of
Holborn etc., all of which were within easy walking distance from each
other, but often still separated by open space and fields. (The
incorporation of places like Mayfair, Marylebone, St. Pancras, Hoxton and
Stepney - all still within a walking distance of London Bridge - only
occurred during the following century.)

Don Aitken...

This wider area was treated as part of London for many purposes. It
was known as the metropolis, or, more formally the "parishes within
the bills of mortality"; extensive public health statistics were
published for this area.

favour. The evidence presented in court was based entirely on personal
recollections, some of which would have been classed as hearsay in an
English court, as the documentation then available (from the German
side) was all contrary to the claim.

jlkenney...

And I imagine that no Russian documents have come to light in the years
since?

2) I suppose this question is ultimately moot if the answer to the
first question is "No, this trip did not happen," but there's this
repeated claim that somehow this trip would have constituted "treason"
on the part of the Grand Duke. But isn't the implication that *the
Kaiser* sent the Grand Duke to Russia for the purpose of securing a
*separate peace* with Russia? How on earth could that *possibly*
constitute treason on Ernst Ludwig's part? Were General Hoffmann and
Foreign Minister K=FChlmann guilty of treason for negotiating a separate
peace with Russia in 1918? Was Prince Sixte guilty of treason
(against, er, France, or Belgium, or something) for meeting with
Emperor Karl and trying to get him to negotiate a separate peace with
the allies in 1917? Where on earth does this claim of "treason" come
from?