Hartenau Battenberg ref: Sainty claims

Guy Stair Sainty wrote on Mon, Jun 5 2006 9:15 pm:

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.=2E

This and other treads seems to have calmed down! Why?

" the original grantor of the title of Prince of
Battenberg, in this case, decided to replace that title with the title
of Count
of Hartenau. There is, Mr Buyers, a big difference that you may perhaps
be
capable of comprehending; that the Battenberg title was created by the

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6BL.

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e house

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6BL.

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e house

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=3DD6BL.

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the house

Guy Stair Sainty...

Not necessarily; it depended on the individual house - for example, in the house
of Austria Archduke Clemens (1904-1974), assumed the title Count von
Altenburg 2 Apr 1931 and, with the approval of the Head of the

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his

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his

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nd his

Imperial Family, that of Prince von Altenburg 15 Dec 1949 for himself and his
descendants.

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e head

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e head

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the head

One sees that Austrian Archdukes who married without the permission of the head
of the House lost all their imperial titles and styles.

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e of

Prince Wilhelm of Liechtestein (born 1922) renounced his title of Prince of
Liechtenstein 11 Jul 1950 and took the title Graf von Hohenau with the

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1980.

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rying

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1980.

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rying

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eign

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been

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t 1980.

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arrying

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ereign

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as been

authorization of the Ruling Furst, and was restored to his titles 28 Oct 1980.
His eldest son remains Count of Hartenau; his second son Stefan after marrying
renounced the Hartenau name and title with the authoirsatino of the Sovereign

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the Hohenau name

One may furthermore not at all an ally of Mr Buyers. Of Mr Sainty may
see it such!

Prince and took the last name Heildborgh; the youngest son, Heinrich, has been
restored to membership of the House of Liechtenstein.

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royal

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1).

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h royal

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951).

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ying

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his

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2003),

In Sweden Princes Sigvard, Carl and Lennart, all renounced their Swedish royal
titles and were created Counts Bernadotte af Wisberg (creation 2 July 1951).
Prince Oscar of Sweden (1859-1953) rneounced his Swedish titles on marrying
morganatically and was created Prince Bernadotte and Coutn af Wisberg, his

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03),

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otte.

descendants being just Counts and Countesses. Prince Carl Gustaf (1911-2003),
renounced his titles as Prince of Sweden in 1937 and was created Prince

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te.

Bernadotte (Belgium) and his childfren given the titles of Count Bernadotte.

These are just a few of the many examples.

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How do these families enter the Hartenau ex Battenberg (properly partly
Mountbatten) business?=20

Monsieur occupez vous de vos oignons!

Guy Stair Sainty...

Perhaps if he had actually read the comment of his friend Mr Buyers, below, he
would have understood why i gave examples of families where princes marrying
morganatically gave up their rank to take the name and title of their future
morganatic issue.

susuhanan...

Any examples from Peru?

We are obviously talking about German families here. Nor are we talking
about, in the case of the Battenbergs, members of a sovereign house or
family. At best, Alexander Joseph alone was a former ruling prince.

No need to start another entirely unrelated topic, but as has been
clearly stated before there was no such thing as a morganatic marriage
in Sweden, so those examples are entirely erronesous.

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Unrelated items permit to save face, as nobody see one in fact has lost
face.

Grand
Duke of Hesse, and so as the source of the grant the Grand Duke could
amend it
in certain circumstances - these circumstances were when Prince
Alexander
decided he wished to give up the use of the title and be granted a
lesser one
for himself and his issue, the latter being effectively deprived of the

Battenberg title with which that of Hartenau was substituted. Neither
Queen
Victoria nor her successors played any part in this decision, but one
may be
certain that they respected it. And naturally "Kaiser Bill" accepted
the right
of his fellow sovereign to amend the grant of a title to a member of
his own
family, without having to approve or disapprove it"

And your source, reference or citation, for the official Grand Duchy of

Hesse document which specifies this "replacement" of titles is?

Christopher Buyers

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Bonne question!