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Victoria Melita and Cyrill Vladimirovitch
20 Dec 2005 16:10:20 -0800
alt.talk.royalty
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Donald Renouf...
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I understand from various internet sources that on Grand Duke Cyrill
Vladimirovitch's marriage to his divorced first cousin Victoria Melita
(previously Grand Duchess of Hesse) on the 8 October 1905, he was
stripped of his imperial titles by the Emperor of Russia, who
disapproved. By what names and titles were they then known? Actually,
cbstewart3rd...
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He was banished, stripped of his offices and control of his dynastic
revenues, but not his imperial titles. Rather, an Imperial commission
(in fact, I think, two) convened to study the situation and potential
punishments. The Commission's advice was that there was no precedent or
law that allowed the Emperor to strip a dynast of his succession rights
(to those that argue Russia's Emperor was an unrestricted "Autocrat",
this was not clearly the case from 1906. In any event, since Nicholas
II, like each emperor, had repeatedly sworn a public oath to abide by
the Fundamental Laws -- and to adhere to its "inviolable articles"
without change - these codified acts were treated as legal
constraints by the Commission). If Cyril could not be persuaded to
renounce, all that could be done was to withhold dynastic rights from
his putative wife and issue.
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cbstewart3rd...
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Nicholas contemplated reducing them to the "Princes Kyrilovsky". This
was, however, never enacted. Strictly speaking, from Russia's point
of view the marriage was illegal and the issue illegitimate.
Eventually, of course, ukases were issued for those of their children
born before the revolution, recognizing them as bearing the exact same
title as belonged to every other male line great-grandchild of a
Russian emperor born of an Imperially approved marriage: "HH Princess
Maria Kirillovna (of Russia)".
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come to that, how was she styled between her divorce on the 21 December
1901 and her remarriage? When exactly were they eventually restored to
cbstewart3rd...
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Don't know. No doubt as part of the divorce settlement there was a
treaty worked out between Hesse and by Rhine and Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
stipulating Victoria Melita's title. Since the couple had no son, it
would have been anticipated that Ernest would re-marry in hopes of
producing an heir apparent.
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the status of Grand Duke and Grand Duchess by the Emperor?
cbstewart3rd...
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Their marriage was recognized by Nicholas II on 15 July 1907, but
cbstewart3rd...
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Considering that Nicholas II had created this commission to find a way
to exclude Cyril from the succession and Imperial House, it is amazing
that within six months of being told "no" by a slight majority of the
Commission, he relented and accepted Cyril's marriage and child as
dynastic, even if he didn't lift their banishment for another two
years.
Still, this must have set the stage for the drama in 1912 between
Nicholas and his brother Michael Aleksandrovich. When the latter broke
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cbstewart3rd...
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Interesting, since Emperor Alexander I twice approved the marriage of
his sister Catherine to a first cousin; first to Prince George of
Oldenburg in 1809 and then to King Wilhelm I of Wurttemberg in 1816.
Both marriages were solemnized in Russia. George and his descendants
lived their entire lives in Russia and were treated as dynastic
cognates of the Imperial House.
In fact, these Oldenburgs became a kind of local "well" from which
Romanovs could "draw" spouses without having to marry abroad (along
with the Russianized Leuchtenberg and Mecklenburg-Strelitz branches;
and like the Battenbergs and Tecks in England, and the Bourbon-Sicilys,
Bavaria y Borb=F3ns and Orl=E9ans y Borb=F3ns in Spain).
Was it only during the reigns of the conservative Alexander III and the
pious Nicholas II that the Church's disapproval of first cousin
marriages was enforced? This seems to have caused a *lot* of trouble in
Dimitry...
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No, but this disappoval was extended on the imperial family. Alexander
I approved marriage of his sister to her 4th degree relative not only
for to save her from the marriage with Napoleon. He also was married to
cbstewart3rd...
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Yes, because that would only explain one of her two marriages to first
cousins with the Emperor's authorization!
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4th degree relative. Of 21 marriage of Paul I's agnates 3 was in 4th
degree (forbidden), 9 - in 5th and 6 in 6th (grey zone). Emperors
married: Peter III - 6th, Paul I - 9th and 7th, Alexander I - 4th,
cbstewart3rd...
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How was Alexander so closely related to Elisabeth Alekseyevna (n=E9e
Dimitry...
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She was niece of his father. As husband and wife is one spiritual body,
then niece of Paul I's first spouse is his niece...
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Louise of Baden)?
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Nicholas I - 5th, Alexanders II and III - 6th, Nicholas II - 5th, Cyril
I - 4th, Vladimir - 10th.
cbstewart3rd...
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How was Vladimir Kirillovich related to Leonida Bagration in the 10th
Dimitry...
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Vladimir's uncle duc de Galli=E9ra (three births) was first cousin once
removed of Infanta Maria de las Mercedes (+five births) who was
sister-in-law of Leonida (+ two births).
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degree? Isn't Maria Vladimirovna more closely related than that to her
ex-husband, Michael Pavlovich (n=E9 Franz Wilhelm of Prussia)?
Dimitry...
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Maria and Michael Pavlovich were at the moment of their wedding in 8th
degree through Kira & Louis Ferdinand.
Shortest path is very useful, although it is necessary to exclude
marriages made after computing event.
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Charles Stewart
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the family, because of the "forbidden fruit" attraction of Romanov
grand dukes to their fetching first cousins, the daughters of Alfred,
Duke of Edinburgh and Marie Aleksandrovna: Cyril Vladimirovich's 1905
elopement with Victoria Melita ex of Hesse, his brother Boris's affair
with Queen Marie of Romania that probably produced Marie, later Queen
of Yugoslavia (1900-61), and their cousin Michael Aleksandrovich's
thwarted courtship of Beatrice, later Duchess di Galliera, which
marriage Nicholas II, no doubt, came to long for in retrospect -- given
the woman Michael ended up wedding.
All of this was aggravated by the fact that not only were the male
suitors close kin of Nicholas II, but the female beloveds were all
first cousins of Alix -- so the Emperor and Empress's enforcement of
law, canon and social mor=E9s meant crossing one's kin *and* in-laws. No
wonder Nicky dreaded his relatives' visits, while Alix, teased by her
girl-cousins throughout her childhood for her morbid piousness, went
ballistic and wanted to punish everybody all the time.
IIRC, there was also the pointless pining passion of Nicholas ("Bimbo")
Mikhailovich (1859-1919) for one of his Baden first-cousins (Viktoria
of Sweden? Marie of Anhalt?)...
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cbstewart3rd...
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Considering that Nicholas II had created this commission to find a way
to exclude Cyril from the succession and Imperial House, it is amazing
that within six months of being told "no" by a slight majority of the
Commission, he relented and accepted Cyril's marriage and child as
dynastic, even if he didn't lift their banishment for another two
years.
Still, this must have set the stage for the drama in 1912 between
Nicholas and his brother Michael Aleksandrovich. When the latter broke
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cbstewart3rd...
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Interesting, since Emperor Alexander I twice approved the marriage of
his sister Catherine to a first cousin; first to Prince George of
Oldenburg in 1809 and then to King Wilhelm I of Wurttemberg in 1816.
Both marriages were solemnized in Russia. George and his descendants
lived their entire lives in Russia and were treated as dynastic
cognates of the Imperial House.
In fact, these Oldenburgs became a kind of local "well" from which
Romanovs could "draw" spouses without having to marry abroad (along
with the Russianized Leuchtenberg and Mecklenburg-Strelitz branches;
and like the Battenbergs and Tecks in England, and the Bourbon-Sicilys,
Bavaria y Borb=F3ns and Orl=E9ans y Borb=F3ns in Spain).
Was it only during the reigns of the conservative Alexander III and the
pious Nicholas II that the Church's disapproval of first cousin
marriages was enforced? This seems to have caused a *lot* of trouble in
the family, because of the "forbidden fruit" attraction of Romanov
grand dukes to their fetching first cousins, the daughters of Alfred,
Duke of Edinburgh and Marie Aleksandrovna: Cyril Vladimirovich's 1905
elopement with Victoria Melita ex of Hesse, his brother Boris's affair
with Queen Marie of Romania that probably produced Marie, later Queen
of Yugoslavia (1900-61), and their cousin Michael Aleksandrovich's
thwarted courtship of Beatrice, later Duchess di Galliera, which
marriage Nicholas II, no doubt, came to long for in retrospect -- given
the woman Michael ended up wedding.
All of this was aggravated by the fact that not only were the male
suitors close kin of Nicholas II, but the female beloveds were all
first cousins of Alix -- so the Emperor and Empress's enforcement of
law, canon and social mor=E9s meant crossing one's kin *and* in-laws. No
wonder Nicky dreaded his relatives' visits, while Alix, teased by her
girl-cousins throughout her childhood for her morbid piousness, went
ballistic and wanted to punish everybody all the time.
IIRC, there was also the pointless pining passion of Nicholas ("Bimbo")
Mikhailovich (1859-1919) for one of his Baden first-cousins (Viktoria
of Sweden? Marie of Anhalt?)...
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cbstewart3rd...
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Considering that Nicholas II had created this commission to find a way
to exclude Cyril from the succession and Imperial House, it is amazing
that within six months of being told "no" by a slight majority of the
Commission, he relented and accepted Cyril's marriage and child as
dynastic, even if he didn't lift their banishment for another two
years.
Still, this must have set the stage for the drama in 1912 between
Nicholas and his brother Michael Aleksandrovich. When the latter broke
his promise and eloped with Madame Wulfert (n=E9e Natalia
Cheremetevskya), mother of his illegitimate son. Michael stood his
ground and refused to sign the renunciation of his succession rights
that Nicholas demanded, knowing that the Emperor's threats were
meaningless (Alix's fury was another matter).
Charles Stewart
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Cyril's banishment was not lifted until his father's final illness
in 1909. The ukase belatedly recognizing Victoria Melita as Cyril's
wife was implicit, declaring her to be a Russian Grand Duchess but
avoiding explicit approbation of the marriage, still deemed doubly
scandalous (due to divorce and first cousinship).
Charles Stewart
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