Queen Victoria I of Sweden

When the lady Victoria gets to reign, will her children bear the name

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Crown Princess Victoria, to be formally correct.

jlkenney...

Vasa-Bernadotte, or will the dynasty's name be altered, such as changed
to that of her husband?

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The current name of the Royak House isn't Vasa-Bernadotte, it's
"Bernadotte" only. I suppose you got your notion from the fact that the
inescutcheon of the Swedish Great Coat of Arms is impaled with the arms
of Vasa and Ponte Corvo, but that inescutcheon has no binding power for
the name of the Royal house.

Besides, the question of possible change of the name of the royal house
will wait for another generation. Crown Princess Victoria is a true
Bernadotte by birth, and will remain so whomever she will marry.
Witness the paralllel to Queen Elizabeth II of the UK and various other
realms, who is a Windsor and nothing but.

Jan B=F6hme

Dag T. Hoelseth...

The dynastic name of the curent royal house of Sweden is Bernadotte. The
members of the royal house don't use a surname (except for practical
purposes such as when Prince Carl Philip served in the military). Why should

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In that case, it was a piece of fiction. Not only don't the members of

Dag T. Hoelseth...

lled

Dag T. Hoelseth...

that

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hat

Dag T. Hoelseth...

Well, the TV reports in connection with his service told that he was called
Bernadotte - and I interpreted that this was for practical purposes. If that
is fiction to you, then fine with me.

=?iso-8859-1?B?SmFuIEL2aG1l?=...

It of course depends on what you mean by "fiction". The Prince wanted
to be adressed as anyone else, and have no favours whatsoever.
Accordingly, he had a name tag on his uniform saying "Vpl Bernadotte"
when he started his military service, and was addressed "Bernadotte",
eventually preceded by his military rank - because he wished to be
addressed such. Not because it was his name - because it actually
wasn't.

I suppose that one can use a surname without actually having it. If so,
this was what Prince Carl Philip did. But to me, his use of
"Bernadotte" in the military is more similar to a nickname used in a
certain social setting. My youngest son is usually addressed by the
Swedish equivalent of "Piglet" within the family. But does this mean
that "Piglet" really is one of his names? The Swedish Census Authority
certainly don't think so.

And I tend to agree with them.

Dag T. Hoelseth...

Of course I agree with what you say above, my interpretation is just
the same (I have discussed this topic in other forums earlier), and my
expression "for practical purposes" is not contrary to your comments
either. I just objected to the word "fiction", as one could get the
idea that I had invented the example of the use of the name Bernadotte
for Prince Carl Philip in the military (although I know that this was
not what you meant).

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Of course not. I intended to mean that _he_ invented it.

Just like in Sweden the Norwegian royals are listed in Folkeregisteret
(the People Register) with their titles and given names only. The
exceptions are the king's sisters who do have a surname (Lorentzen and
Ferner). How are the king' of Sweden's sisters registered in your
register?

Anne...

I'm sorry to say that I haven't checked. The King's sisters that are
included in the Folkbokföringen are not HRH:s or Princesses of Sweden,
so they certainly will be entered under their married names of
Silfverschiöld and Magnuson, repsectively. I'm not certain that there
is any mention of the title of Princess there at all. Counts and barons
are not registered with their titles, so there is no obvious reason
that the King's sisters should. Their official style is "Prinsessan
Desirée, friherrinna Silfverschiöld" and "Prinsessan Christina, fru
Magnuson", respectively.

Jan Böhme

Why is Desiree "friherrinna" and Christina "fru"? How do these words
translate into English?

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Desir=E9e is "friherinna" - Baroness - because she is married to a
Baron. Christina is "fru" - Mrs. - because her husband isn't titled.

Jan B=F6hme

pierre_aronax...

"Baroness" and "Missis" (at least I suspect...).

=?iso-8859-1?B?SmFuIEL2aG1l?=...

I'm sorry to say that I haven't checked. The King's sisters that are
included in the Folkbokf=F6ringen are not HRH:s or Princesses of Sweden,
so they certainly will be entered under their married names of
Silfverschi=F6ld and Magnuson, repsectively. I'm not certain that there
is any mention of the title of Princess there at all. Counts and barons
are not registered with their titles, so there is no obvious reason
that the King's sisters should. Their official style is "Prinsessan
Desir=E9e, friherrinna Silfverschi=F6ld" and "Prinsessan Christina, fru
Magnuson", respectively.

Jan B=F6hme

Dag T. Hoelseth

Jan B=F6hme

the royal house _use_ surnames, they haven't even got any, from a legal
point of view.. If one checks the Swedish census entry for Prince Carl
Philip, it says "HKH prins Carl Philip Edmund Bertil", and nothing
more.

jlkenney...

The Bernadottes are rather closer to having surnames than just about
any other royal house in Europe, past or present, save the Bonapartes.

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The important difference, of course, being that the Bernadottes are a
reigning house. Whether authorities in different countries allow royals
of non-reigning houses to continue without surnames is entirely up to
their discretion, and nothing that the deposed royal house in question
can affect.

They descend from a man who bore a modern style surname, which was
"Bernadotte." Any member who loses his dynastic rights is
automatically called "X Bernadotte," as well, isn't he? The situation

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It's always worked out that way in practice. But there is no automation
to it. Anyone who lost their "HRH Prince X of Sweden" style, had to
get a surname, and "Bernadotte" was a pretty logical choice. But it
_was_ a new adopted surname. The could equally well have made something
up entirely new. Or called themselves "Oscarsson", "Gustavsson" or
"Wilhelmsson", according to what was individually applicable.

seems comparable to the relationship of the British royal family to
"Windsor," save that Windsor is a made up name, while "Bernadotte" is a
real surname dating back to before their ascension to royal status.

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Pretty comparable. But there have been clear differences. The Windsors
have needed a surname also when they haven't lost their dynastic
rights, as members too distantly related to a sovereign don't get the
HRH prince/princess X style. So far, we haven't had that in Sweden. If
you are a bona fide dynast, you have also by default been a prince (or,
now, possibly princess) of Sweden.

But this won't work from now on , because 1) we now have both male and
female succession to the throne, and 2) while individual marriages may
well be disapproved of by the Monarch also in the future, they will be
so based on lack of individual suitability, rather than on any
variation of the Ebenburtigkeit principle. Thus, the number of
disapproved nmarriages may safely be assumed to be significantly lower
from now on. This will mean that the number of bona fide dynasts will
increase dramatically over the generations.Thus, we, from now on, have
a situation much more similar to that of the British Royal House, and
there will soon be a need for a principle detailing wow distantly
related one can be to a sovereign, and still be called "HRH
Prince/Princess X Y Z W of Sweden", without any surname. My guess is
that this style will eventually be limited to children of the sovereign
and to children of the heir to the throne - possibly, whenever
applicable, also to the children of the oldest child of the heir to the
throne - but I am privy of no inside information as to how the King
reasons in these matters.=20

Jan B=F6hme

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Crown Princess Victoria as Queen decide that her (possible) children should
be named Vasa-Bernadotte when they don't use that name now? The reigning
house before Bernadotte was Holstein-Gottorp, which the king descends from
through Queen Victoria, wife of King Gustaf V.

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Even better, the current King (like his grandfather) is arguably the
best claimant to the throne also if the deposition of the House of
Holstein-Gottorp were considered invalid...

pierre_aronax...

Although the future queen Victoria will no more be...

Jan B=F6hme

If the future reigning Queen Victoria's oldest child as monarch should
decide to change the dynastic name, it could either be the father's name
(family name of Queen Victoria's husband) or a combination of the father's
name and Bernadotte). Or he/she could just decide to let things remain like
they are. Time will show.