Brancovano - ex stripe Bibesco - princely title

Concerning Austria this family's name has to be written such. Somebody
belonging to the n=E9gritude may write the name different; because the
family actual is ..., is living in ..., but then he pass the border of
the Austrian Empire, which - if it ever existed - certainly does not
exist any more. He will then write under Brancovan - such in Gothaland
(German ed., 1905, 276), etc: The Brancovan received - under the name
Brancovano - from Austria ... 1860 ... (source Frank1, 903; AVA
(Adelsarchiv), Vienna, file ...[to be completed]; HHStA, ... [to be
completed]).

edespalais...

Frank1, number 903, says Brancovano is entitled to use the title of
prince (darf sich des F=FCrstentitels bedienen). It seems to have been a
Foreign Title (an interpretation - right or wrong), Gregor was entitled
to use it. Only the original, or the file can say under what
circumstances the title can be used; if this is also valid for wife,
and descendants in the male line.

radu.bogdan...

I think that there were 2 documents issued... a first one, on Febr.
15th, and a second one, on Febr. 25th. In this case, the first, issued
by the Chancellery of the Empire, was traced by Frank, but not the
second, issued by the Emperor's Chancellery. That would explain the
differences and why Frank talks about one thing, and the "rescrit" sent
to Bucharest about another (recte : authorization).

Brancovano is not enlisted among the princely families who have rank at
court. No possibility to show off at court with the Princes. At best
therefore a second class princely title.

radu.bogdan...

(a) "No possibility to show off at court with the Princes ?" One should
ask if they cared to show at the Court :-), given the fact that they
did not live in Austria, but in France ;

(b) as for "first" class / "second" class princely titles, I suggest
H=2EC. Zeininger's article ["Rivista del Collegio Araldico", settembre
1939, XVII, pp. 396-403] ; you'll have to opportunity to see how many
distinguished families were (according to your own criteria) "second
class".

If I were you, I wouldn't rush to catalogue titles in "1st" and "2nd"
simply because the house of Austria did not ; the differences had other
motivations, and I think you know it too well. If Franz Joseph was kind
enough to do what he did for the Bibesco Bassaraba de Brancovan in
1860, for political reasons, I'm afraid that a Gudenus cannot change
that...

radu.bogdan...

Because if you'll make such comments, I will start to wonder why the
Gudenus themselves did not acquire a "second class" princely title.
Weren't they Goodenough ? :-))

edespalais...

The word class may be seen unfriendly. That was not the purpose.

radu.bogdan...

I'm glad you specify that ; usually, such words, without supplementary
explanation (defintion, etc), have this quality of being "unfriendly"
:-)

Furthermore text of 1860 is unknown. The Brancovano of 1860 had some
rights concerning the use of the princely title, since 1860, that is
sure. Why they - and perhaps other families (you might use the word

radu.bogdan...

It seems that we agree on this point.

class, group, list of names, etc) - were not among the families having
rank at court is not one's business. The not being among is a fact. To

radu.bogdan...

It is, it cannot be contested, and indeed, there are several
explanations for them not being there...
Thank you, once more, for the information you provided.

explain this fact: none of one's business.

Brancovano - ex stripe Bibesco - princely title - 1860 (Austria)