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Did 'Bruce' also evolve as a Scottish name?
Mon, 01 Jan 2007 23:19:31 GMT
alt.talk.royalty
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sionevar...
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The House of Bruce which provided Scotland with Kings Robert I and David II
was originally named de Brus, after the town in Normandy from which it came.
How likely is it that this family is the sole source of the modern surname
'Bruce' in Scotland? Would anybody care to hazard a guess (or do you know
Hen Broon...
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That depends on what you mean by the "sole source". Certaintly people over
the world have assumed the names of kings and nobles as a means of
self-agrandisment. So if you are asking "are all Bruces in Scotland
decended from the first generation of de Brus immigrants" the answer is
most probably no.
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for certain) that the name had an entirely separate Scottish origin?
Hen Broon...
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It would be impossible for the name to develop totally independently once
the name "Brus" was introduced, and there is no documentary evidence of a
similar name predating the arrival of the Bruce family.
However, the Normans were vikings who had settled in France, and the
vikings invaded the west coast of Scotland long before de Brus arrived, so
a name derived from the same root *could* have been introduced by the
vikings. The spelling of the two names may later have converged into the
single modern form "Bruce".
Finally, many modern Scottish names are inaccurately anglicised from
Gaelic. While Gaels are generally thought of as carrying a patronymic
surname (MacWhatever), many used a nickname, or were named for their home
town. So someone from Brue, Bruist or Brusta in the Western isles, or a
kidnapper, dreamer or a man who just bruises easily, could have found his
name anglicised to Bruce.
But does this count as a Scottish origin? I'd say yes, but it's certainly
not entirely separate. But then, how could it be? No language develops in
isolation from its neighbours.
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Any insights much appreciated as always...
Hovite...
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The origin is slightly uncertain, but it certainly isn't Scottish.
Black "The Surnames of Scotland" (1946) says it derives from Brix in
Normandy.
Reaney (1958) "A Dictionary of British Surnames" discussed both Brix
and Le Brus.
Hanks & Hodges (1988) "A Dictionary of Surnames" gave three possible
places: Brix, Le Brus, or Briouze.
There is some clan history here:
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The Highlander...
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I have no knowedge of whether or not Brus was also a Scots name at
that point, but I can tell you that after the Normans conquered
England, several drifted north and settled into Scottish court life.
Examples are de Brus, Fraser (from French "Fraise", a strawberry) and
of course Stewart, aka Stuart in French spelling, a Breton family.
Bruce and Stewart became kings of Scotland, While the Frasers became
chief of the clan which was named after them, Clan Fraser, or Friseal
in Gaelic.
A complete list of all known chiefs and the history of their families
and clans can be seen here, just below the centre of the page. The
list expands, I would guess, to several hundred entries covering many
pages.
I would like to add that there is no clan headed by anyone called
Hines.
The Highlander
Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns
an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil.
The views expressed in this post are
not necessarily those of The Highlander.
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Lesley Robertson...
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I see that someone has already told you what Black says.
Most (but there's always exceptions) locally-evolved surnames have an
obvious derivation. For example:
From people - Robertson, MacGregor, etc
From places - Allardyce, Hutton, Moor, Kirk etc
From occupations - Clerk, Miller, etc.
From physical characterisitics - Brown, Long, etc.
I suppose that some lines could be derived from brewing. (eh James Brews >
James Bruce)You always need a fuzzy approach to the spelling of scottish
surnames before WW1 - people gave their names to clerks who wrote hat they
thought they heard). However, you could never be certain without tracing the
line right back. Also remember that people sometimes took the surname of
their Landlord, Chief, etc so there might not be a blood relationship, just
one of loyalty.
Lesley Robertson
Séimí mac Liam...
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How likely do you think it that de Brus and De Braose have a common
origin?
Turenne...
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Both were originally Norman families, the de Braoses originated in
Briouze on the Maine/Normandy border and the Bruces were supposedly
from Brix, between Cherbourg and Valognes. In 1066 the Braoses existed
with their name intact and the Bruces were de Brus, it is difficult to
find any connection.
Richard Lichten
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Jackie Mulheron...
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Did Smith evolve as a Scottish name or is it just German? Schmidt.
Anne...
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Though all "dottirs" seem to be
Turenne...
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The origin is slightly uncertain, but it certainly isn't Scottish.
Black "The Surnames of Scotland" (1946) says it derives from Brix in
Normandy.
Reaney (1958) "A Dictionary of British Surnames" discussed both Brix
and Le Brus.
Hanks & Hodges (1988) "A Dictionary of Surnames" gave three possible
places: Brix, Le Brus, or Briouze.
Further to Hovite's comments Henry Barber's 'British Family Names'
(1903) states that the names Brus/Breux derives from the original Norse
landowner's name; 'Brusi' meaning buck or he-goat.
Richard Lichten
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Is every Mac- just Irish?
Are all -sons Scandinavian?
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