Help! My 2 yr. old (almost 3) is picking holes in the wall!

Lately, my 2 year old son has started throwing things when he gets
hyperactive, especially when he gets put up in his room in the
afternoon for a nap. He is also finding tiny places to pick at on the

Nikki...

I would try to deal with the hyperactivity. Perhaps more outdoor time in
the morning, which should include games where he throws things as well as
lots of physical activity. Things that would take a lot of hard work -
moving things, pushing or pulling things, etc. Maybe he could help vacuum
or drag laundry baskets around. My youngest son was (and still is) a
massive thrower. I tried to make everything I could into a throwing game
and it did make it easier to get him to stop throwing what he shouldn't. He
still throws his clothes into the hamper, throws his non-breakable toys
(like blocks) into the bin, throws the dishcloth into the sink, 'throws'
balloons around the house, at two we sometimes played catch in the house
(he's to big/throws to hard now).

He is also finding tiny places to pick at on the

mpdsville1...

Think of a way to bring him down from the hyperactive zone before
going upstairs to naptime. Perhaps a few minutes of "lets sit down
and sing a song", or "short story" time before naptime. Set aside a
few minutes of wind down time outside his room just before naptime.
Make it a pre-nap ritual.

toto...

In fact have a whole naptime ritual just like you do for bedtime.

-L....

If this is the case, why is he alone long enough to pick at the wall?
Get a monitor and when you hear him awaken, go in there and remove him
from the room.

toypup...

Then I'm sure he would probably never get to nap and he would end up crabby
and impossible by the end of the day, and he would be crabby and impossible
everyday because he is always sleep deprived. My solution would be to set

-L....

Huh? If he is up and picking at the wall, he isn't sleeping either, so
sealing him off in a Superyard won't make him sleep. Your post doesn't
make any sense.

toypup...

Well, if you keep going back in, he may never fall asleep.

If I hear my 2 year old up, I go in and put him back in bed. It never
takes more than three times in before he understands it's nap time.

toypup...

If I kept going into either of my kid's rooms to stop them from whatever,
they would never fall asleep. In fact, they'd keep doing it just so I'd
keep coming back in. They don't want to fall asleep, they fight it even
when they need it. The only way they fall asleep is if they are alone with
nothing to do.

If the little guy is picking at the wall, and she still wants him to
sleep, he needs to be stopped and put back into bed. Repeat ad
nauseum.

Nan...

Well, it's not a one-size-fits-all issue. Your solution works for
you. It may not work for others.
My dd would just keep messing around if she thought I'd keep coming in
her room at naptime or bedtime. We have to just let her be until she
falls asleep on her own, or I'd be putting her back to bed all
day/night!

toypup...

You only recommend that because it worked for you. It doesn't work for
everyone. I know my kids and it would never work for them. In fact, the
idea that my appearance in the room would get them to go to sleep is beyond
me. Would be nice, though.

-L....

Works for everyone I know. It's also how they do it on the Nanny
shows. Have you ever even tried it? If not, how do you know it
would not work?

Sue...

work

Sue...

me,

Sue...

Maybe the point would be, are you being consistent in what you are doing? I
understand what L is trying to say, I think. Most parents only try something
1-2 times and say it doesn't work. Well no, it's not going to in 1-2 tries.
A parent does have to be consistent in their actions for toddlers to
understand that we mean business. When DD1 was first put in her twin bed,
she would get up and we would put her back in her bed without much fanfare
and in the beginning, it did take a few trips a night for her to get it, but
it did eventually work at the end of the week once the child understood that
we were not going to back down.

We transitioned DS into a twin bed around 19 mos. The first night he
was up 6 or 7 times - the first few, I told him I loved him, kissed him
goodnight and tucked him back in. After 3 times I simply went back in
and tucked him in, no words exchanged. He eventually went to sleep.
After 3 days of this - each day getting a mite better, he eventually
laid down and put himself to sleep without fuss. He has now been in
the twin for almost 5 mos and goes down almost always without a peep
both for naps and bedtime. If there is a peep, it is usually only one,
and if I need to go in, I only have to tell him to go to sleep once and
he does. He simply leanred that his bed was for sleeping. In fact,
sometimes in the morning if he is really sleepy he will put himself
back into bed to snooze for another half-hour.

OK, maybe I am just lucky that my kid is easy going and does pretty
much what I want him to.

Nikki...

I think that is it. FWIW I followed the exact same routine you describe at
night with Luke. It has been months and months and at least 75% of the
nights I still get up in the night to put him back in bed. It isn't about
me not being consistent, because I am. That is just the way it is. I used
basically the same method (only a bit more in stages) to get him to go to
sleep without me being with him. It did work but it took over a year so I
would say that yes...you have an easy going kid. Not all kids are wired
like that and it isn't the result of bad parenting, it is just the way they
are.

-L....

How old is Luke? Age may be a factor as well. I pretty much don't put
up with much resistence - but kindly and gently be consistent. I
haven't had any real battles over anything except him taking pens -
which I finally made sure *every* pen in the house was beyond reach
unless it was time to draw and then it is supervised pen usage. Now if
I could only train DH...

enigma...

mine is 5.5 and won't spend an entire night in his own bed...
however, it's not a battle i choose to make an issue of. he
goes to sleep in his own bed just fine, no squabbles, no fuss.
he just gets up somewhere between midnight & 4am and migrates
to my bed... where he goes right back to sleep. i'm both an
insomniac and i really light sleeper, so i know when he comes
in. as long as he's going right back to sleep, it's not a
problem.
we didn't start to transition him to sleeping in his own
bed/room until 3.5 anyway, so i'm used to him being in the bed
& he's not excessively wiggly when he's sleeping.

I dunno - I pretty much am more of the tract of having the kids conform
to my lifestyle rather than changing my lifestyle to conform to my

-L....

There's a big difference between picking at the wall when you are
supposed to be sleeping and picking up pens because you want to draw.

Nikki...

I see the picking a hole in the wall issue as seperate from the nap issue so
we'll just disagree on that point.

In the first there is a control issue - in the second, it's merely an
interest. In the first you *need* him to sleep, and he is refusing. I

Nikki...

I would not say that the picking thing is a control issue. There could be
lots of things going on that aren't about control. He could have some
nervous energy and picking at things helps him self sooth, he could just be
curious, he could the type of kid that picks at everything, just as a couple
of examples.

don't care if DS has pens - I just want him to use them where I can
supervise what he is doing.

kid's wishes. Barricading them off from picking at the wall isn't an
option because picking at the wall isn't an option any more than
sticking their hand in the fireplace would be. If it was a safety
issue and they simply wouldn't comply, sure, I'd barricade off the
item, but overuse of those tactics are detrimental in the long-run,
IMO. You can't barricade your kid for the rest of his life - at some
point s/he has to listen to you.

enigma...

see, this is where you run into problems with other people.
you have an easy going (and young) toddler. lots of us have
more challenging kids. :)
it happens that i am one who thinks "babyproofing" the house
is not the way to teach a toddler to leave things that aren't
his alone, however i'll also concede that i had more time &
interest in shadowing Boo at the exploratory age than many
parents do. let's face it, if i was working 8-10 hour days,
the last thing i'd want to be doing when i did have time with
the kid would be saying "No! don't touch. let's play with this
instead". besides which i discovered early on that if there

-L....

How else do you teach them? Like I said you can't barricade the world
for them, and you are also teaching them to obey and respect you.

an588...

I like what another poster on this group said a long time ago:
there were a number of kitchen cupboards with childproof locks,
and one cupboard without a lock, the purpose of which was to
teach the children not to open cupboards. The principle I
generalized from this is: you can choose what to teach the
children when. For example, childproof everything except one
thing that is a little tempting but not extremely, and teach
the children self-control for that one thing. Later move on
to more challenging self-control tasks. This way, teaching
self-control can be like teaching math: you don't throw
integrals and differentiation questions at a 5-year-old.
You choose tasks appropriate to their level, and they gradually
learn. Childproofing everything would be ilke not teaching
a 5-year-old any math at all; childproofing nothing would
be like asking them to do advanced math before they'd learned
arithmetic. Once they get good at a certain self-control
task, you can remove just enough of the child-proofing to
give them a slightly more advanced self-control task to
master. (In a way that's sensible and purposeful too,
for example starting to keep something in a more convenient
place.)

dragonlady...

The barrier is temporary (just like putting the pens up).

-L....

Still doesn't teach the kid to sleep. It also doesn't teach him to
quit picking at the wall.

-L....

She first talks about putting the child "up in his room for his
afternoon nap" and later states
" If there isn't a hole to pick at, he will throw something and make a
tiny one, then
start picking at it."

dragonlady...

Why? I don't have a hard time imagining that. (And throwing something

dragonlady...

I've realized that you seem to think that he must only be picking at the
wall WHEN HE'S OUT OF HIS BED. That is not an assumption I would make.
My kids certainly had access to the wall from their beds!

Plus, ordering a child to fall asleep is just silly. You can order them
to be quiet, but falling asleep is entirely up to them.

at a wall to start a hole could have happened any time -- once it's
started, picking at it makes no noise.)

-L....

She said if there isn't a hole already, he picks up something and
throws it at the wall to make a hole. I highly doubt the kid has
access to heavy enough toys *from his bed* to hurl at the wall to make
holes. Not only thrown at the wall, but thrown at the wall *close
enough to the bed to let him have access to it*. Right.

It's much more likely the kid is out of bed finding toys to hurl.
How many toys do you keep in a 2 year old's bed that are sufficiently
heavy or hard enough to chip a hole in the wall? Hell, I can only
think of one toy DS has that would enable him to do that and those are
his heavy blocks and he surely doesn't sleep with those....

I find it hard to believe the kid is doing all of this from his bed,
*or* that she puts him "in his room for a nap" and doesn't expect him
to sleep. If the kid is picking at the wall, he isn't napping, which
is the reason she put him in the room in the first place.

dragonlady...

I put my kids down for a nap (or to bed, for that matter) without
"expecting them to sleep". I expect them to stay in their beds and be
quiet -- whether they sleep is up to them.

-L....

Yeah, whatever. No wonder we can't see eye to eye on this one....

Picking at a wall can be done quietly.

-L....

Not so quiety that it won't be heard on a monitor which is the other
suggestion I had for the OP. I heard my son suck his pacifier on a
monitor.
-L.

enigma...

it keeps him from picking at the wall until he's actually old
enough to understand that he *shouldn't* pick at the wall.
it is *exactly* the same as keeping the pens out of your
son's reach until he can understand why not to put them in his
mouth.
let's leave the whole nap issue out as a red herring, ok?
now, assume this is your child & when you leave him alone in
any room because you go put a load of laundry in the dryer or
whatever, he picks at the wall. you are not present when he
does this, because when you are there, he's doing other things
or you can redirect. but when you go out of the room, he
picks. *what* are you going to do to stop this behavior?

And "obedience" is NOT the most important thing to teach your child.

-L....

It is when they are small enough that they cannot keep themselves safe.

enigma...

at 22 months, obedience is just not cognitively possible. i'm
not sure even a 3 year old "gets" obedience, although they're
starting to understand cause & effect around then, so rewards
do sometimes work on some kids.
lee

was an outlet cover, that was a magnet for Boo to go try to
play with. otherwise he totally ignored outlets.

Those personality traits that are difficult for parents when their kids are
young are often the very same traits that make very successful adults so it
isn't all bad! For instance my son Luke is extremely persistent. That can
be very challenging for me as a parent but what a fantastic personality
trait to have as an adult. My other son gives up fairly easily. This made
him a very agreeable toddler but I worry about how that is going to play out
when he reaches adulthood and it isn't so desirable to give up on things so
quickly.

-L....

dragonlady...

So, when YOUR child does something they aren't supposed to do, it's
because they are inquisitive and interested. When someone else's child
does something they aren't supposed to do, they are misbehaving.

Why can't you see that a child picking at a wall is ALSO curious and
interested?

You remind me of a bizarre argument with my father. My oldest was about
3, and had a new box of crayons. She broke one, and noticed that there
was a dimple in the crayon where it broke. So she proceeded to break
ALL of the crayons in half, to see if they ALL got that same dimple. I
was fascinated, watching her apply the scientific principle (make a
hypothesis and test it). After all, the crayons all still work the way
they are supposed to, they cost about 59 cents, and I had paid for them
and had no problem with what she was doing. All my father could see was
a child being destructive, and wanted me to punish her. (Had I told her
to stop and she'd refused to, THEN we'd have had a problem.)

Me Myself and I...

Wow I find this fascinating!! What a wonderful mind your daughter has! Did
she ever make mention of what she was doing? Do you think she was satisfied
with the end result? Typical though that at the age of 3 you couldn't
really sit down and discuss the working of her mind but I think it would
have been very interesting. How old is she now? Do you think the crayon
incident was indicative of things she did later on?

Sorry questions questions questions but this story really tickled me :)

dragonlady...

iirc, I DID ask what she saw when she broke the crayons, and she showed
me that they all got that dimple, but that was the extent of our
conversation.

She has always needed to prove things to herself, often the hard way.
Which means not taking ANYONE'S word for ANYTHING -- in the long run,
this ought to be a pretty good trait. As a teen, it meant she tried
lots of things I'd have rather she not tried!

She's 23 now, and doing great -- about to reach one full year of
sobriety, doing well both at her job and at school, and contemplating
becoming a high school math teacher. She and I have a great
realationship. But the path up to now has included some pretty tough
years. While I will always second guess SOME of the things I did as a
parent, valuing critical thinking over instant obedience is not one of
them -- it may have made life more challenging for me (and even for her,

-L....

We are talking about a two year-old. Two year-olds need to learn to
obey for safety reasons. Do you really want your two year-old
"critically thinking" when you tell her to stop from running in the
street?

short term) in the long run I think it will serve her well.

So maybe this child has become fascinated with how walls are put
together, and wants to know if it always takes the same amount of effort

slugbug...

Original poster here. I'm sure that is part of it. When he picks away
the old plaster, he can see the wooden lath behind it, and in between
the wood, he can see the space between the walls. I'm sure he finds it
interesting.

However, I have begun to wonder if his destructive behavior might
mostly be caused by boredom. I realized that I didn't have too many
toys in there, so I put some in for him to play with. One of the big
ones he actually threw hard, making another hole, so it was taken away.
However, he doesn't seem to be picking at the wall as much. I was
able to buy some quick setting drywall mix and spackle the holes in the
afternoon. Now he has no "edge" to get his fingers under.

Nan...

Good solution :-)

dragonlady...

Any chance you could find someone who is taking out a lathe and plaster
wall, and have him come in to "help"? Barring that, you might be able
to find old This Old House episodes about lathe and plaster walls --
both being build AND being torn down (though I don't know that anyone is
building that way any more). Though, for a 3 yo, watching a video
wouldn't be NEARLY as satisfying as getting his hands on one!

I'm glad he's picking at the walls less!

(or whatever) to develop a hole in it. Now, that doesn't mean you have
to let it go -- but attributing this child's behavior to being a Bad Kid
(while YOUR child writing on inappropriate surfaces is just a normal
child being curious/interested/whatever) is the sort of parenting
attitude that drives me nuts.

-L....

dragonlady...

My kids understood the difference between a safety command and other
things.

-L....

At two. Right.

And I don't want my two yo close enough to the street so I couldn't use
physical force to stop him or her.

-L....

Who does? The point is, at two you are teaching them to respond to
voice command for safety reasons.

And, yes, I value critical thinking, even in a two year old.

-L....

Even when it is a safety issue? That was the question I am asking. Do
you really want your 2 yr. old. postulating: "Gee, if I run in the
street four more times will Mom still respond the same way...?"

I have been around plenty of kids. I simply expect better behavior out
of them than many of you obviously do.

Depends on what he's giving up on, right? ;) My biggest challenge with
DS is his creativity. He knows he can't do something like, say, touch
the space heater. He interprets this as not touching it with his
hands. So he sits down and scooches next to it and touches it with his
toe. He does stuff like that a lot - and he's not even two. Clever
little stinker! I will admit he is pretty easy-going though. Always

enigma...

heh. he may be a more challenging toddler.
so, what happens when he touches the space heater? how hot
does it get? (iow, will he be badly burned?) for things that
might hurt but not cause any serious damage, if Boo persisted
in going after them when told NO, i'd let him find out the
hard way. he figured out pretty quickly that when mommy said
NO, there *was* a reason. i never said no just for things that
were messy or inconvenient either... no was reserved for
safety issues at that age (oddly, no is now mostly for treats
in the 10 minutes before dinner)
lee

-L....

I usually intervene before the space heater is an issue. I think he is
too young to "suffer consequences" just yet. But I do agree that in
many circumstances, it is a good learning technique.
-L.

has been.
-L.

Nah - can't be so. I think people, generally, just don't want to be
strict with their kids.

Nan...

Oh FFS. Do you honestly believe that a parent that doesn't do
something the way YOU think they should, just isn't wanting to be
"strict" with their kids?!?
Tell me, are you planning to adopt more kids?

-L.

up the Superyard XT in the center of the room around the bed, far enough
from the wall so that he can't touch it. I Superyarded DS's room when I
didn't want him getting into the closet nor climbing on the dresser.

Nan...

Aren't those (Superyard XT) great! We've been using ours to protect
the Christmas tree and to keep small person off my treadmill.

toypup...

We got our money's worth from ours.

-L.

toto...

For the hyperactivity, try making sure that he has lots of active play
before naptime. You may want to play dancing or jumping games
before lunch. You may want to go out to the park and play early so
that he gets tired out. (If you exercise to a video, you can engage
him in your workout). If you are doing housework, you may be able
to have him *help* by using a small broom or loading the lower
dishwasher rack with unbreakable items or pairing the socks when
you do the laundry. If he likes rough and tumble play try games like
*run knock mommy over* where you sit on the floor, he runs to you
and you *fall* over onto your back, lifting him into the air and up
onto your knees.

Make sure though that he has a nice wind-down period right before
he is going up to nap. You might cuddle and read a short book or
cuddle and sing a song. Perhaps get a class of water. If he is being
potty trained, this might be a good time to put him on the potty
before nap.

wall, where he will pick a hole in the wallpaper. If there isn't a

Nikki...

Ack, that is a tough one. I don't think I have any useful suggestions for
that one - sorry! I wonder if there is some kind of game/activity/crafty
type thing he could fiddle at with his fingers when he is nervous and trying
to unwind? If he's throwing specifically to make a hole to pick at - the
above suggestions might not work.

hole to pick at, he will throw something and make a tiny one, then
start picking at it.

We live in an old house, and after all the work we spent removing the
old wallpaper in our master bedroom, we decided to just paint over the
wallpaper in the kids room. Right now there is yet another 2-3" hole
in the west wall. I'll have to sweep up all the pieces, then spackle
the hole. I'll have to figure out how to keep the kids in another room
for 2 to 3 days while it hardens, then sand it flush. Then I get to
paint it, and keep them out for another day or so.

Any ideas how I can discourage him from picking, or from throwing
things and making holes in the wall? The hole doesn't go all the way
through, because it is an older house with pieces of lattice under the
old horsehair and gypsum mix. I've tried standing him in the corner.
I've tried spanking him. I've tried explaining to him why he shouldn't
do it. I've tried making sure he always has toys to distract him, just
in case he was bored. Nothing seems to stop it.

Penny Gaines...

Could you hang some material on the wall, so he doesn't have access
to the wallpaper? You could get a cheap curtain rail and have a
curtain, or just use some hooks for it.