Video games

My 7 year old daughter has been asking for Gameboy for Christmas. My
nephews, 10 yrs old and 7 yrs old, both have Gameboy and Nintendo DS,
but they are playing the game all the time. Even when the family is

bizby40...

It wouldn't bother me if the kids were sitting there quietly playing a
game while I talked to their parent. And I don't see why they should
be sent away. But I agree that they should greet the visitor, and

bizby40...

Mostly I don't care, and consider it the family's business. But there
was this one teen who brought his to church every Sunday, and would
sit and play it for the entire hour of church. I thought that was
rather rude to the preacher, the choir, and the other speakers. I
probably never would have even noticed, except the kid was always on
the very end of the pew, right next to the middle aisle. He even sat
in that sprawled out teen way so that he was spilling over into the
aisle itself. He was at least 14, and was certainly old enough to pay
attention, or if not, to be left at home.

Rosalie B....

I would definitely consider that his parents were not parenting
appropriately. Although of course teens are difficult parenting
problems. I suspect this was his way of protesting having to go to
church in the hope that the parents would relent and leave him home.
Sort of a silent tantrum. And if that was the case, they can't give
in to the behavior. If he was sprawled into the aisle, I might be
tempted to step on him or trip over him.

Ruth Baltopoulos...

I think that is exactly the point, to some degree. If one
is in a setting that requires or expects some attention,
full focus on a hand held video game is basically a back
door way of saying "I am not interested and therefore will
not be involved". Social expectations for children have
evolved to a point where this has become acceptable to some.

I also consider it every family's own business, but would be
less than honest if I said that it doesn't bother me on a
very basic level when it is extreme, such as your example.
I wouldn't say anything, certainly, or offer my opinion
unless it was asked :), but I definitely view with caution
some of the choices that children are being allowed to make
in social settings and with their play time...

Banty...

That would bother me too.

But there's still the issue that someone who manifestly does *not* want to be
somewhere doing something, is made to be there presenting a good face for hours,
and weekly.

Yes, for some things people need to just buck up.

But I also think that the parent(s) who more or less enjoyed church or thought
it necessary, is being pretty insensitive to the teen who manifestly did *not*
in making him be there hours and weeks on end.

So there's a conflict in desires. And an inflexibility which creates the
situation. Can't the teen stay at home on a Sunday morning? Or go to church
once a month and be allowed to stay home on a deal that he behave well that once
a month.

Likewise, I really think that people who enjoy long interactions often, don't
"get" what they're asking spouses and kids to buck up and do - they expect that
they should be enjoying it too, or at least greatly minimize what mental energy
it takes to present an attentive pleasant face for hours and hours in some of
the situations we're talking about.

Rosalie B....

I agree with Banty, and I think this is another case where the
introvert/extrovert thing comes into play. Extroverts enjoy the
interaction, and need it and do not see that everyone does not also
need/enjoy interaction with others. Introverts do not need it, and may
be stressed by it.

Banty...

That's a lot of it. There's also just that extroverts like football too ;-)

It's a balance and a matter of gentle negotiation sometimes. What gets in the
way of that is this idea that talk is supposed to be the center of our shared
lives for everyone, and non-talk pursuits, even shared ones, is second.

I can't find it now, but I have recently read an article about
behavior at parties where some people 'work the room' and are happy
about that, and some people are just very slow to warm up and only
with a few people at a time. And the woman who worked the room was
married to the other type of person, who was just standing their by
himself (not looking bored or unhappy or anything, but also not
talking to anyone), and she thought he was being rude.

Banty...

"Piece of cake"? What if you (Ruth) *hated* horses and *hated* riding, but you
were supposed to ride, ride, ride, anytime they wanted to ride. Well, maybe
*then* it would be more of a fair trade for them to attend church with you as
often as you do.

Ruth Baltopoulos...

I don't attend church, nor do I require my children, so your
example is a bit off kilter. The small things that I ask of
my children are more along the line of being kind, thinking
of others, etc.

Banty...

OK - I incorrecly recalled you were the one going to church - that was your
mother making you go to church.

Ruth Baltopoulos...

Yes, indeed it was, and she still tries to get me to attend
with her whenever I am in town on a Sunday morning. If I
go, I do it for her, and the happiness that she feels in
having her children with her. That would be the only reason :)

Rosalie B....

My kids had horses too, although I did not consider that it was a
sacrifice for me, even though I am afraid of horses and do not ride.

Ruth Baltopoulos...

Well, Rosalie, if it wasn't a sacrifice for you, are you
implying that it mightn't be for anyone else? Owning horses
in the area where we live is hugely expensive, as is the
entire affair of lessons, boarding etc, and it was something
which required me, as a single parent, to reinvent my
financial balance and personal schedule in a very large way
to accommodate. And I love horses :)

Rosalie B....

It was a financial problem for us too - at one point my dh fell and
broke his shoulder and elbow and was out of work, and I had to have my
mom pay my mortgage (for which I paid her back) because I just didn't
have the money to do it and still pay the horse board and feed
everyone. But I didn't consider it a sacrifice. I did a lot of
things which required adjustments in my life (like I had to figure out
how to turn myself into a swim team coach), but I didn't regard them
as sacrifices.

Ruth Baltopoulos...

We are different people, Rosalie, and therefore have
different feelings about our lives and decisions, not to
mention very little information by which to base judgments
on each other. I hope I am not expected to mirror your
emotions and reactions to what might seem to be similar
situations?

This may be partly a question of definition. I don't really like the
idea of saying something is a sacrifice because that implies
obligation, and I resent being obligated. I never liked it when my
mom would imply (although she wouldn't actually say it), "I worked my
fingers to the bone doing xyz, and the least you could do in return is
abc" My POV was that if it was so onerous, that she shouldn't do it
because I'd rather do without xyz than have to be grateful for it.

toypup...

I agree with that. My mom is the same way. She tells me about how she
stayed up with me and had to feed me every x hours, like I need to repay
that burden. I stayed up with my kids, I was on bedrest for both of them,
but I would never dream of making them repay that or making them feel guilty
about it. It's what we do when we're parents. What did she expect? If she
didn't want to do be up taking care of us, she shouldn't have had us.

Ericka Kammerer...

I think there are two sides to the issue. I agree that
it's not appropriate to harangue ones' kids and guilt trip them
over the obligations incurred by parenting. After all, we're
the ones who chose to parent ;-)
On the other hand, I think there certainly is a place
in the job of parenting for teaching our children to be respectful
and thoughtful of others, and that's just as important at home
as it is outside the home.
So, "You owe me good behavior because I didn't get a
good night's sleep for a year when you were an infant," is out,

Rosalie B....

Yes respect is necessary, and guilt trips are bad. But, my mom was a
master of the guilt trip without actually SAYING that I owed her. The
one I remember most recently was more "How could you speak to your
mother like that?" when I disagreed with her.

toypup...

It was more like she wants worship and adoration and a house and money. My
brother bought her a car and put her in his will and was planning to give
her a house. My other brother promised her a house one day. I do think
it's a cultural thing, because lots of friends have done that for their
parents (bought them a house). They want to tell their friends their
children loved them so much they gave them a house. So, she wants me to
demonstrate my love in some huge monetary way. My friend said her mom told
her that was what my mom wanted and I neeed to give her money. My friend's
mom doesn't know my mom. They are of the same culture, so it's very
cultural.

She thinks it's terrible that children move away from their parents, after
all they've done for them. Of course, I must be awful, because I moved
away, and how would she explain that to her friends. Her child doesn't love
her enough, she moved away. I visited only once a week. That wasn't
enough. I said I didn't have enough time to visit more. She said I could
visit more if I really wanted. Basically, I need to wrap my life around
hers to show my gratitude.

but, "Excuse me, but you can't expect me to rearrange my plans
to run you to six different activities this evening if you're
going to be ornery and disrespectful all day," is a perfectly
fine consequence to uncivilized behavior.

Rosalie B....

I know that you are trying to articulate an appropriate consequence
for disrespect, but I'm not sure that this is a good one. For one
thing, I think the consequence should be more immediate - that the
child shouldn't be allowed to be disrespectful all day before the
consequence is announced (although that probably wasn't what you
meant).

Ericka Kammerer...

No, I didn't say anything about the timing of
the comment. It's not really necessary, as it's a standing
rule in my house. You want others to do for you? Well, then you
can't be beastly to them and still expect them to come through
for you. Getting hauled to rehearsals and birthday parties and

toypup...

Just as parents should not be beastly to their adult kids and expect them to
shut up and take it as pay back for their infancy.

Getting hauled to rehearsals and birthday parties and

friends' homes and whatnot are privileges. It's my job as
a parent--the job I chose--to get up at night with babies
and deal with all the ins and outs of parenting. It is also
my job to bring up civilized children who know how to get
along in the world, and the rest of the world is not going
to put up with selfish prima donnas.

toypup...

I think this is fully different from parents putting guilt trips on their
adult children as a means of control.

As for the unappreciative adult child who never visits, helps out, calls
their poor aging parent who raised them to adulthood, I see a whole other
side. I do believe there are some selfish kids in this world, but on the
whole, if a parent is so wonderful to their kids, I can't see that they can
be anything but appreciative and wonderful back. The average poor neglected
parent may be wonderful to outsiders and gain their sympathies from stories
of the ungrateful child, but only the child and parent knows what's really
going on; and there is usually some dynamic going on that no one else sees.

I also cannot see myself rearranging my plans for a last minute thing
unless it was some kind of real emergency that wasn't schedulable,
whether the child was ornery or not.

Ericka Kammerer...

I've already rearranged my schedule to accommodate
their stuff, but I will un-arrange it if they can't be
civilized. Plus, they do have plenty of last minute
stuff, especially on weekends. They have to finish their
work before they can go off and do stuff, so often we
can't really schedule anything until we know that they're
going to have time. Finding a last minute fun activity
with friends for an evening when the homework turned out
to be light is not an uncommon occurrence.

You may have a situation where too much was asked
of you as a child, with a bunch of guilt-tripping thrown
in for good measure. There are, however, many other kids
to whom much is given and relatively little expected who
need some significant reminding of their obligations, and
who can stand to be reminded without being dealt a crushing
blow of guilt. I assume in your case, at least now as an
adult, you are quite capable of seeing the difference
between what you actually owe your mother and what are
unrealistic expectations on her part and unfair guilt
trips. There's a world of difference between that
and legitimate, appropriate expectations on kids and
their behavior.

Rosalie B....

I don't think too much was asked of me. I think actually that too
much was asked of her. She and her brother got very sick when they
were children and her brother died. She was the first grandchild on
both sides and was a girl. She felt that everyone wished that she had
been the one that died because she was a girl, and that the whole
weight of expectations of the family were on her to fulfill. She had
to excel. Also her dad was a gambler and alcoholic and I expect that
played into it too. She wanted to be perfect so that he wouldn't be
mad at her.

She was quite sensible really in most cases. Actually one of the most
irritating things about her was that she was almost always right. She
just cared a lot about what other people thought of us, and did not
want me to behave in any way (such as yelling where other people could
hear, or fighting with my sister) that would make people think that we
were not superior people. I felt that she cared more about what other
people thought than what I felt. It was disrespectful to disagree
with her, and if one actually did that and pushed the issue, she would
get all hurt. And because she visited her grandparents every week,
she expected that her children and grandchildren would visit quite
often.

I do think that nowadays, kids are sometimes not very well socialized
as to how to give respect. Every time I see that CarMax commercial I
cringe, and so does dh. It's a very riveting commercial (the one
where the girl is given a red convertible for her 16th bday and has a
tantrum because it is not blue). Only a parent could love a child
like that and they probably haven't loved her in the right way.

Best wishes,
Ericka

bizby40...

I've been trying to think of a good way to articulate this for the
past day or do, so I appreciate you doing it for me. Some of the
posts up to this point seem to be taking the stance that the parents
owe everything to the kids, and the kids owe nothing to the parents.
My child owes me the same respect and consideration I give to her.
And sometimes that takes some reminding.

Rosalie B....

I'm probably not too good at doing the reminding because I'm sensitive
to the subject on account of my mom. But I don't think that my kids
are disrespectful of me now that they are adults.

toypup...

If you show your child respect and consideration, you deserve the same in
return. If you turn your children into basket cases after every visit, you
cannot rely on the repect and consideration you gave thirty years ago to

bizby40...

Sure. I wasn't referring to you, or to adult kids in general. It's
just that the topic up to this point had been one-sided. As the
parent of a child who all too often thinks she is "owed" whatever she
wants, it think it's important that she understands that those who
give are more likely to get. No one keeps a scorecard of course, but
in any relationship, even a parent-child one, if things get too
lopsided, then something has to change.

carry you through.

toypup...

Well, that isn't a guilt trip. It's perfectly reasonable.

Some people are very sensitive and perceive the
latter as a guilt trip as well as the former, but I think
there's a pretty significant difference.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Banty...

These are debts to be paid forward, to one's own children. Life moves forward;
it should not fold back on itself.

Ruth Baltopoulos...

I believe your definition and interpretation are quite
different than my intention. You are giving it a negative
slant where none was meant.

Banty...

Yes - to me it's a given that a good parent makes a decent life for the family
as a whole as much as they can. Fostering kids' intersts is a big part of this
- it isn't this above-the-call-of-duty thing that calls for big sacrifices in
return. It's something paid forward (kids in raising *their* kids) and returned
in continuing fellowship through life like you (Rosalie) described in your last
paragraph.

Ruth Baltopoulos...

That was not my point at all, but carry on...

Banty...

I think everyone should have consideration for everyone. But not for tit for
tat. That's all.

Ruth Baltopoulos...

I guess it is difficult to be clear about a twenty year span
in a few paragraphs. While I have zero interest in tit for
tat, I most definitely have great expectations that my
children hold within them the humanity to recognize and
appreciate what is done for them, regardless of the level of
sacrifice, stepping past their own immediate desires in
consideration of others.

Of course it is our duty to provide for the family that we
created, as best we can, just as it is on us to teach our
children that they play an important role in the whole
process...

My mom said that she visited her paternal grandparents every Sunday
even after she graduated from college. This was the norm to her. Her
paternal grandparents didn't play cards (sin papers) and certainly not
on Sunday although my grandparents and my great aunt at least would
play anagrams.. My second cousin reported to me that his grandfather
(who was a minister) was exceedingly upset when he found that my
cousin had been listening to the ball game on the radio on Sunday.
That was not to be done.

My grandmother also took my mom and her brother down to visit her
maternal grandparents as often as possible, leaving my grandfather
alone to fend for himself. In any case, she felt that family visits
were a given.

Fortunately or unfortunately, we lived 100 miles from my mom's
parents, and my dad's parents were 3/4ths of the way across the
country, so we did not do that. But when we did visit, we were
expected to hug and kiss the relatives, and sit quietly whether bored
or not. Of course we were both girls. And because of geography it
happened infrequently and not every weekend.

But she expected us to visit her on a regular basis. Sometimes this
was obviously geographically impossible and that was OK, but she was
not above using a little passive-aggressive behavior to make us feel
guilty if we did not visit as often as she thought we should.

We stopped allowing her to have big family meals (like at
Thanksgiving) some years ago. She was not able to get everything done
and onto the table - she got obsessed with the details, and the kids

toypup...

Right, and it's not like we don't feel grateful, but parents need to be nice
when the kids are grown and no longer cute. It's not like they can be good
to us when we are newborns, then make us into basket cases every time they
see us when we are out of the house and then expect us to worship them for
sacrifices they made thirty years ago.

got hungry and the men got cranky. She wouldn't allow TV to be
watched

My perception of myself is that I haven't asked my children to do much
when they were children except be polite to their elders. Now that
they are grown, DH has painted houses, installed equipment, helped
move things, and I (although I'm not such a good painter) have run
errands, weeded the garden, babysat etc. Now I sometimes ask them to
help us, as we have helped them.

Rosalie B....

There are some things that bother me a lot. I don't mind (indeed I
quite like) watching football and other sports events. But I HATE
watching situation comedy, drama and movies, even when they are
children's movies. My children and grandchildren often are watching
these kinds of things when we visit, and dh enjoys them too.

In the case of dh, when we are at home, I watch TV in the bedroom, and
he watches it in the family room (or he watches in the main saloon of
the boat and I watch in the aft cabin) so we don't have to agree on
watching the same things.

But when I'm at one of the kids' houses, I sometimes leave the family
group and go back to the bedroom and use the computer because I just
can't stand to watch movies. If I can't do that, I sit with my back
to the TV, and do something else, like read, and try to block the
dialogue out. This was quite rude and unfriendly of me. I did allow
my granddaughter to persuade me to watch Shrek, but that's about the
limit for me.

Ericka Kammerer...

I would also suggest that when one sees a snippet of
some unknown family's life, one isn't really seeing the whole
picture. I'd agree that the teenager (or any kid, really)
playing video games in church is, on the face of it, rude.
On the other hand, if you say my kids and their friends
sitting at a table playing games in a restaurant while
the parents sat at the next table and conversed, you
wouldn't have any idea whether this was how we always ate
in a restaurant, or whether this was the opportunity we
had to get the kids together to share a new game while
the adults caught up with each other. That's no different
from my getting together with a friend at a restaurant
to go over something for work or discuss/work on some
other hobby. Those same kids might be delightful
conversationalists around the Thanksgiving table. One
also doesn't know if the younger kid playing games at the
restaurant table has been hauled from pillar to post on
other people's errands all day long and is frazzled to
within an inch of his ability to cope and that game is
all that's standing between your pleasant dinner and
overhearing a screeching meltdown ;-)

Ruth Baltopoulos...

Well, clearly, we are speaking in generalizations and
therefore the baby can get lost with the bathwater ;) I
work with children and have two demon spawn of my own who
are 19 & 20, and commuting to college from home (probably my
most challenging parenting period) so completely understand
that often a compromise must be reached in certain situations.

I have no overwhelming objection to video games, hand held
or otherwise, until a child becomes so focused on them that
they view any other social interaction as bothersome in the
face of their need for the thing. My kids, when a bit
older, would usually have a table of their own, and color or
play cards or small travel games or whatnot. Really no big
difference in my mind.

So, while I agree that there are plenty of
folks who make what I consider to be odd decisions
about how much or what sort of game playing can go on,
I also remind myself that sometimes things are not
necessarily as they appear when it's a case of strangers
overseen in public ;-)

Ruth Baltopoulos...

Agreeance.

I do agree that there are places where it's
rude to be "checked out," in which case having your
nose stuck in a video game is certainly out of bounds--
and more so than, say, bringing along your knitting.
Many folks can knit and still attend to their
surroundings and carry on a conversation, but in
most cases you can't do that if you're video gaming.

Ruth Baltopoulos...

Exactly.

On yet another hand, however, if you watch
kids playing video games together, that often *is*
a social, interactive experience (especially with
some of the games out today), so it isn't all of
them sitting silently in a row absorbed in their
individual games. Within reasonable bounds, I
don't see a problem if kids play together that way.
Goodness knows it's how a lot of boys bond these
days.

Ruth Baltopoulos...

And in that situation, it isn't worrisome to me, but when
you see a child(ren) in a video coma for hours on end in an
inviting setting. Same thing with older kids and AIM or
MySpace, or Facebook, and the countless hours they can't
pull themselves away from the computer for anything family
related...

Best wishes,
Ericka

should go to another room if they are being disruptive in some way.

together for holiday, birthday or even just a get-together. I guess

Penny Gaines...

[snip]

I'm not so sure about that, for similar age kids.

My DD and her cousin - three months younger - loathed each other until
they were about 4yo. They saw each other a lot (several times a
fortnight), so it wasn't just that they didn't know each other. But
personalitywise they were complete opposites. DD liked to sit round
doing one thing carefuly: Cousin was in constant motion, and if there
was a tower of blocks would come along and knock it over.

Because they were so close in age everyone assumed that they would be
happy to do stuff together. But they weren't.

Banty...

Well, I was speaking in general. But sure, if there's that kind of mismatch,
the adults present should realize that and allow some other kind of outlet for
both kids. By presenting them with separate activities, or getting a babysitter
for one, or something. Surely the *adults* wouldnt' be continuing the visit if
they didn't get along.

Penny Gaines...

Oh there were usually other siblings around as well, so it wasn't too
bad. But I interpreted your comment as "the two 3yos should do stuff
together, while the 5yo and the 7yo do other stuff". It worked better
if the 7yo did stuff with A3yo, and the 5yo did stuff with B3yo.

Banty...

Oh I didn't mean anything quite so strict.

Although, a large age difference can mean they don't relate, or the elder is
turned into unwitting free babysitter. Which of course isn't evul - kids help
run households and facilitate adult's activities, too. But then again it gets
into when and whether there's too much of that.

Cheers,
Banty

Nan...

Booooooooooooooring! For the kids, and annoying for the adults, imo.

Nan...

We'd do this after the meal had been eaten. We could carry dessert to
the rec room if we wanted, but everyone was at the table for dinner.

Marie...

Banty...

A "drag-along" hubby? Marriage partners' needs for socializing can differ, too.

Marie...

Yeah, he strongly resembles the stereotypical computer geek. The wife is
VERY outgoing, they are complete opposites.
Marie

Banty...

So, maybe outgoing wife can undo that hitch she has that seemingly connects her
and hubby hip to hip and *then* go out...

Nan...

Depending on the circumstances, I'd have an issue with that.
A few scenarios:

1. Bridal/baby/whatever shower... heck no, I wouldn't insist my
spouse attend any of these, even if the invitation was "couples", or
included him. *I* find them boring so I wouldn't subject him to them.

2. Family get-togethers such as holidays, graduation parties, etc.
Heck yes, I'd expect his attendance. And no, I wouldn't like him
sitting in a corner reading, playing a video game, or talking on his
cellphone all night.

Banty...

To me, it depends on how many of these there are. I know people who are
constantly dragged to a co-worker's daughter's wedding, etc etc. Even these
kinds of things really can get out of hand.

Nan...

Nah, I'm speaking strictly of family get-togethers. For example, my
family would get together for Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve. Unless
someone graduated or got married, those were pretty much it for us.
Wait, we'd all go out for my grandpa's birthday. So that's just 3
days a year for a spouse to have to suck it up.

I'd expect co-attendance to a select number of important occasions. But no, not
like what I've seen in some couples.

Nan...

I'm not too social myself. So I'd probably be the one trying to beg
off in situations where it wasn't immediate family.

I think family members do have an obligation to their spouses to join
in, so to speak. If my brother had a wife that kept to herself all
night, I'd try to pull her in and get her involved. Same with my own
spouse, if it was a matter of shyness.
But if my spouse or in-law felt it was their lack of "social need", my
attitude would be "suck it up and deal, hon".

If the family is watching football and you find it a big yawn, then by
all means, find something else to do. I have no issue with that as
long as you've had *some* social time with the family, and I think
that anyone who would expect you to sit quietly and watch something
you hate is pretty rude.

Banty...

See, now, why is it that chit chat supposed to be gamely joined in with, but
watching a game together (yes, it *is* social to watch a game together) is
something that can be opted out of??

Nan...

Actually, I don't think chit chat is supposed to be gamely joined in
with, necessarily. But I'd expect my spouse to make more of an effort
than to sit in a corner the entire time. And I find football to be
immensely boring and I don't enjoy chatting about the most recent
play.

Sue...

differ, >too.

Banty...

bizby40...

Because chit chat can be about anything, and an effort should be made
to include topics of interest to each person there. Football is
football, and social or not, if you are choosing a specific event that
some have no interest in whatsoever, then you have excluded them. If,
having been excluded, they choose not to stick around, that's
understandable.

Banty...

See, there's still a strong bias. You see the football game as if it's like a
tiny subset of chitchat subjects, while general chitchat, since it should
include topics of interest to each person there, should suit everyone.
(Newsflash: at family gatherings?? Success rate is small. Even so, this
assumes that, if the topic is right, chitchat is what people want to do
together.)

To you, chitchat is King.

I, and probably the football-watchers see it as:

Chitchat - - what YOU like to do together.
Football watching - - what WE like to do together.

Banty (tired of Yammer Uber Alles)

Rosalie B....

When I was a child we didn't have video games. We did have books. I
would read if whatever it was we were doing was boring. But if
relatives were visiting, I wasn't allowed to read - bored or not. My
mom considered that it would be rude. I mostly daydreamed unless I
was actively involved in the conversation. I wasn't allowed to read
at the dinner table either.

OTOH, if I was in the car, I was allowed to read and fortunately I had
little problem with motion sickness while doing it. I see nothing
wrong with using a Gameboy or something like that while waiting in
line, or even when there are people visiting (like Bizby stated) if
they aren't grandparents or someone who expects the children to be
involved in the visit.

There has been discussion somewhere about whether it is rude for
someone to do various kinds of needlework when visiting. IMHO it
depends on the person and the needlework. A college friend of mine
could do argyle socks in the dark (we had lights out at 10 pm and she
wasn't ready to go to bed yet), so obviously she didn't have to pay a
lot of attention to her knitting, but a beginner might not be able to
knit/crochet/sew and still maintain a polite and interested demeanor.

There was also a discussion recently - maybe even here - about
whether, when some people wanted to watch a TV program, would it be
rude for a person who was not interested in the program to read or do
needlework, or I suppose play games on a computer. My own take on
that is that a football game or some other program doesn't require
conversation, and if the person isn't interested in watching, it is
rude to require them not to do anything else but watch.

toypup...

Thank you. We are going on an annual trip this month. The whole group
there always watch sports, which I find terribly boring. I'm sure they
think I'm rude, but I can't stand sports, so I do games on my pda in the
room while they are all watching.

Ruth Baltopoulos...

My ex-husband, who watched sports incessantly, was
completely insulted if I read a book, worked on my comp, or
did some knitting or crocheting while sitting in the living
room during a game. He rarely initiated conversation, as he
was so focused on the competition and his anger and
annoyance never made any sense to me at all :)

Sue...

Yep, my cousin's husband is terribly shy. He comes to gatherings and sits in
a chair away from everyone. He is much better now that he has been in the
family for a while now, but he didn't feel comfortable with talking with
others at first.

Family Functions can be the worst, though, where certain things don't start
until Aunt XXX and Uncle YYY are over, then some of the littles are hungry from
the waiting so a little meal is made for them to eat, then Aunt XX and Uncle YYY
arrive but Aunt ZZZ had gone out to get some milk for the kids, so they have to
wait for her to get back.....

If there are kids involved, sure they will go play. But if there are adults
they will have conversations with the adults. And in a family get-together,
the family does things together, not lay around playing video games. My

Nan...

I'll admit we don't do the Family Thang. Haven't since my parents
passed away, and that was pre-Nintendo DS. By *many* years. So I
don't have a reference point to speak from, but I think I'd find kids
that have their noses attached to a video game the entire time to be
pretty rude. I would hate to see it at the dinner table, and I'd
expect the kids to at least force themselves to mingle with the family
before dinner, for a bit.

Nan...

Chew off their arm.

children happen to enjoy their families. They both play with their cousins,

Sue...

Mine too. I maintain that it is not rude for a kid to leave the adults and
go play with the others and if it involves a video game, so be it. The kid
should not be expected to remain with the adults the entire visit, unless

bizby40...

I bet your fellow football-watchers chat just fine about football.
Still, successful or not, chit-chat = infinite number of topics,
football = 1 topic.

npardue...

Chit chat is also commonly subdivided across the room. I just attended
a big family gathering this weekend. (Actually several -- a Bar
Mitzvah with multiple sub-events over the course of the weekend.) We
broke down into various flexible groups over the course of the event.

Banty...

But not necessarily incessantly from 1 pm till 10 pm (say, for a typical holiday
get together) the way people do! Part of the attraction of having a game on is
to provide *escape* from having to go around striving for topics of conversation
all that while, but still be with people.

bizby40...

That isn't typical at all in my life. If we're together for anywhere
near that amount of time, people split in all kinds of sub-groups and
do all kinds of activities, which might include chatting in larger or
smaller groups, dinner, football, video games, or any number of other
activities.

Banty...

So that's a way to be flexible and what happens in a lot of families. It's
functional. But some folks (the female members, especially) are expected to
visit a lot. Or more than they're up to.

But even too much of that can be pretty wearing.

Why that travel company is having those ads urging people to take vacations from
their vising-relative-vacations :)

You don't quite get it do you.

Banty...

Sez you. To whom it should really be about talk.

bizby40...

I really wish you'd quit just deciding in your own mind what I think
and what I "get". I'm tired of trying to defend myself against your
delusions.

Banty...

Some things are clear from how you express it, though.

Sometimes I talked with brother and SIL. Sometimes I talked to two
sisters. Sometimes I talked to my mom and dad. When the guys began
talking about sports (as they WILL do), I wandered off (or turned to
the other side of the table) and talked about kids or work or whatever.
The kids too did various things, sometimes intereracting with the
adults, sometimes with other kids in a public setting, sometimes with
other kids in a cousin's bedroom or hotelroom. It worked.

Naomi

that was what the visit was for.

AND talk to their grandparents, aunts and uncles.
Marie

it really depends on the parents control of the kids!!?? Can anyone
share your thoughts on this?