How do you explain other kids unobvious disabilities.

In my daughter's 6th grade class is child that has a special device that
allows her to type instead of write assignments, and when the kids are
required do things like hand draw or trace items for posters she's allowed
to use stickers. I suspect she has some kind of fine motor skill disability
that makes things like that hard. Unfortunately, this girl likes to lord
over the other kids how they have to write and she doesn't, and she gets to
use stickers and cut outs instead of drawing the posters from scratch. She
also has shown many of the girls at recess that she has no trouble writing.
And to add to this, she also is allowed to get out of school 15 minutes
early most days because she is in professional ballet school an hour away,
but tends to dawdle, and sometimes is still on campus when the other kids
get out of school. My daughter feels this child is unfairly favored. So, my
question is, how do you explain to your kid it is fair without explaining
the child has a disability, or do you explain the unobvious disability? Or
do you start with the life is unfair speech, and point out however that
child is favored doesn't affect her?

shinypenny...

I may be of the minority opinion here, but I feel that if one has a
disability, it doesn't excuse one from boorish behavior. Your DD has a
right to dislike this child, whether she has a disability or not, and
whether she feels insecure about that disability or not. It's simply
not polite to flaunt all the special treatment in everyone's faces, is
it? If your DD won the lottery, would you not advise her that flaunting
it to her friends would be in poor taste?

Since she's in 6th grade, my advice is just to listen sympathetically
to your DD, but let her navigate this relationship on her own. This is
the age when peers begin to shape a kid more than their parents anyway.
Sounds to me like this girl needs to learn a lesson from her peers,
that - disability or not, sympathetic or not - lording it over others
is not conducive to making friends.

dragonlady...

I think I'd probably do a combination of the two. Explain that they
can't know exactly what her disability is. For example, it's possible
that, while she CAN write, doing it for very long would create a
problem. The fact that she dawdles to the point of probably being late
for ballet is HER problem (and may well tie into her disability.)

But even if this is a case where the girl gets some assisstance she
doesn't really need, it doesn't "cost" the other kids in class anything

Ericka Kammerer...

What would the arguments be for not explaining
the disability? If it were me, I would:

Cathy Kearns...

I'm worried that if the child is sensitive about it, and my daughter
mentions it to her, even in what she perceives as a nice way (which may not
happen since this girl tends to get on other's nerves) that she would hurt
her feelings. I don't want to give my daughter ammunition to respond when
this girls is dancing about while others are working reminding them she
doesn't have to do that work. So, I'm wondering for those with kids that
are given accomodations, what type of wording for their situation would not
be hurtful. Perhaps I can couch it in those terms.

dragonlady...

If the child is behaving badly on the playground by "lording it over"
the other kids, I'm not convinced that being careful of her feelings is
called for. I mean, since she is demonstrating that she CAN write, I
would think it would be reasonable to ask her directly: since you CAN
write, why do you have to use the machine to do your writing?

She can either explain or not -- but if someone were demonstrating an
ability to do something and then NOT doing it regularly, I would think
they'd expect to get asked about it.

I'd like to think that it's possible to just ask without giving offence.

- explain the disability and make the point that the
accommodations are there not to give her an advantage,
but just to make it possible for her to do at a similar
level of difficulty as the rest of the class has to
do the project as originally assigned.

- explain that while the ballet school gets her out of
a few minutes of regular school, it means that instead
of going home to do her homework and play, she has an
obligation to do more work before she can do homework
and play each day, so the "privilege" is coming at a
cost (and who knows, maybe the dancing is part of a
strategy to help her cope with her disability).

- explain that her other issues are independent of her
disability. It's not nice for her to lord it over
the others, but having a disability doesn't automatically
make a person nice, and maybe she does that because
she's sensitive about and slightly embarrassed by her
accommodations. And maybe she dawdles for her ballet
school because she's not all that keen on going ;-)

- explain that it's possible that some of her
accommodations are no longer as necessary as they
once were, but also that being able to write a
little bit on the playground isn't the same as
keeping up with a full school day's worth of
writing, and again, she may be showing off trying
to minimize her differences even though she's not
truly able to keep up without accommodations. Still,
even if the accommodations truly weren't necessary,
that's between her, her parents, and the school and
it's no skin off your daughter's nose (except for
the rude behavior from the child, which might well
be there regardless of the accommodations).

Cathy Kearns...

The visible accommodations are new either this year or last. She was in my
daughter's 4th grade class without the typing machine. It's possible then
she might of had to write less, or turn in less work, but if so the others
weren't aware of it. This child is a gifted dancer, and dances in a school
affiliated with a world famous ballet company. I doubt her dancing has
anything to do with a disability, she loves dance. There are many closer
ballet schools if this were purely theraputic. My daughter doesn't see it as

an588...

The dancing can be therapeutic without being "purely" therapeutic.
I would think it has something to do with coordination.

-L....

dragonlady...

The school would be unable to give any information to another parent.
It would be a highly unethical violation of the rights of the girl with
the disabilities.

-L....

They can tell her what's been going on between the children. They can
confrim that the child does, indeed, have the device.

I suppose she could tell the school what the girl is doing on the
playground, but I consider it very unlikely that the adults working with
this child don't know that she is capable of writing. Chances are
excellent that they know exactly what she is and isn't capable of.

-L....

Or have been told to comply with whatever it is the girl is allowed and
have their hands tied.

Frankly, given how hard it can be to get appropriate services for
disabilities that are less obvious, I'd be much more inclined to assume
that the girl is getting what she needs to be successful in school.

-L....

All it takes is money and knowing the right people. You can get
anything with those two factors in your favor.

Stephanie...

What I don't understand is why a parent woudl want to. If she does not need

-L....

Maybe they want her to be "speshul". People do weird stuff.

this, it is not doing her any favors to pretend she has a disability she
does not have.

Donna Metler...

Unfortunately, that's not quite true. If she has modifications on writing in
her IEP or 504, they may (not necessarily will) apply to the state test. And
for a child who is borderline, especially in a state like mine where passing
the test is required to be promoted to the next grade, it would make a
difference. This is not uncommon on the SAT/ACT, where parents will do
anything to give their child that edge.

It makes me angry, because the result of all of this is that whenever a
student who has a true disability applies for special accommodations, they
have to provide a ton of documentation and paperwork and have everything
scrutinized. Since so many people have gotten notes written by doctors to
try to play games with the system, medical evaluations alone are no longer
sufficient. This isn't too bad when the student is in public school and
re-evals are done triennially, but it's a major hassle and expense when
you're out of school and such evaluations need to be done at your own
expense and time, particularly when you have a disability which isn't going
to change. A full reeval for me involves several specialist appointments not
normally covered by insurance since they're not medically necessary-all to
get a piece of paper stating that according to testing I have the same
disabilities I had when I was 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 20.

dragonlady...

I was unaware that you'd have to "reprove" the sort of disability you
have (which is, clearly, permanent. That must be, at best, annoying as
hell!

an588...

Disabilities are not necessarily permanent.

dragonlady...

No -- but some are, and that would include the woman to whom I was
responding.

I'm tring to imagine, for example, my friend R. having to reprove, every
year, that he's missing a hand. Nope, didn't grow in this year, either
. . .

an588...

If there are heart transplants, why not hand transplants?
I wonder how far we are from cloning hands.

Yes, I understand the need to re-evaluate what special accomodations are
needed -- but having to reprove the existance of a permanent disability
seems an unnecessary annoyance.

-L....

Of course not, but maybe they have some weird Munchausen-by-proxy thing
going on or something. Or maybe they don't believe that she doesn't

Stephanie...

I guess personally I would just use the MYOB explanation. Not my business,
not my problem. If she is indeed being favored, the only one who loses is
her.

need it, so pushed for it. People do weird stuff, especially when it
comes to their kids.

Maybe the school needs "x" number of kids with disabilities, or "x"
number of kids with a certain disability, to get certain grants, and
they were short, and she was borderline and the parenst receptive, so
she was pushed though. Who knows?

Donna Metler...

This isn't the way the funding works. Effectively, having a diagnosis is a
check for the parents to demand that the school spend money. Almost none of
the expense of special education is borne by the federal government, so
those expenses have to come from the local district/school's funds.

-L....

Stephanie...

So what? What business is it of anyone elses? Aside from the Munchie

-L....

I didn't say it was anyone else's business. I am merely pointing out
that it could be an exception to the "rule" that the device is always
needed.

Stephanie...

Sure. But you did suggest reporting it and whatnot, which means it is

-L....

I suggested talking to the school to see what the deal was, since her
daughter was upset about something concerning the other child. It's
the least she can do for her daughter.

someone else's business.

-L....

When it (or the other child) affects her daughter it becomes her
"business" to some extent.

specualation which is a bit wacky.

-L....

Stephanie...

How does it affect her daughter in any meaningful way? Jealous that the

-L....

If her daughter is being upset in school, it needs to stop.

Stephanie...

Wait what has to stop? The teasing? I agree.

other girl has an accomidation she doesn't? That's life. I would rather have
an opportunity to sew the seeds of tough luck on this kind of thing when the
kids are little then wait 'til they hit corporate America or whatever.

-L....

Yes, there is a lesson to be learned, but the interactions are what
bother me. If this kind of taunting/exchange is going on at the
playground, it needs to be stopped - at least to the extent that the
teachers need to know it is going on. I suspect they don't.

Now, the disclaimer I do need to add is that I don't have any kids in the
school system, and I don't know precisely how the new test mania impacts

Stephanie...

I thought you were refering to reporting that the girl could write.

this discussion. I don't know if there is a peer to peer competitive
angle... That could change things.

-L....

I don't know. I would bemore worried about the social aspect of it as
there seems to be negative exchanges in both directions. The OP can
only take care of her side of the exchange - the school needs to be
aware what is happeneing so that the "other side" of the exchange gets
the attention it needs, as well. It's fine and dandy to tell your
child not to participate in such exchanges, but if the taunting/lording
goes on and on, it can cause stress for your child.

Stephanie...

Yeah I was talking about the wrong angle.

Not really. There are a number of cases "out there".

I'm not talking about strictly government funds - whether it be city,
county, state, etc. I am also talking about private grants and
endowments. I used to write grant proposals for a project at a school.
If we could prove we served "x" number people with disabilities, we'd
get extra funding from private sources.

Donna Metler...

I've yet to see any private grant which would counterbalance the long-term
obligation the school/district would face once a child is labeled. IDEA
requires services be provided until the child graduates high school or age
22. Most grants are 1-5 years, at best.

Chookie...

Ah. So you are saying that the school, conniving with parents who have
Munchausen's-by-proxy, has provided the girl with obvious and slightly
embarrassing (?) accommodations so that the school will get a private grant?

In addition, there's a very good chance that this child is on a 504 plan,
not an IEP if the only modifications are using an alphasmarts and printing
pictures instead of tracing since neither is a direct educational service or
therapy. IEPs are used if a child needs therapy or active modifications to
the course curriculum. 504s are used if the child needs accommodations to
take the standard course curriculum. And 504s are not federally funded.

In addition, since NCLB looks at children with disabilities as a subgroup
separate from regular ed students, and if you have a small enough number the
group doesn't count, there is a real incentive NOT to label borderline
children. Because while that child may pass the test just fine, her being
counted in the subgroup could potentially push little Jimmy who has no
prayer of passing but isn't severe enough to qualify for alternative

Stephanie...

Welcome to the day when testing is more important than learning.

assessment into being counted twice-once in special education, once in the
grade level as a whole. And that can turn an otherwise passing school into a
failing school.

Chookie...

Sorry, Donna, I'm not grasping this bit, probably because I'm not involved
with the US education system. NCLB must be 'No Child Left Behind' which I
have just read about in wikipedia (not understanding it very well, either),
but how does this lead to borderline children not being labelled and
double-counting students?

I have a really hard time believeing a "gifted dancer" - one who is
being shipped off to elite dance schools - doesn't have the motor
skills, stamina or coordination to write or draw.

dragonlady...

Perhaps she is struggling with disgraphia. The one boy I knew who was
diagnosed as disgraphic benefited greatly from a keyboard. Somehow, the
skill to get the letters he "saw" in his mind onto a piece of paper were
just not there. It wasn't an issue of coordination -- his motor skills
were fine -- but there was something else, something less definable,
missing. He had other learning issues as well, and learning to read was
a problem. However, once he was READY to read -- which wasn't until he
was 10 -- he really took off! He was fortunate to have a Mom who was
able to home school him and teach him in the way that worked best for
him, taking advantage of his strengths and minimizing the effects of his
limitations, which, for him, included letting him use a keyboard instead
of writing things out. He went back to public schools in high school
with very few accomodations necessary. He's now in college and doing
extremely well. But I don't know that he'd have survived his earlier
years without the keyboard.

Maybe all kids should be allowed to use a keyboard, or tape classes, or
whatever. But for some, it is an accomodation that is necessary

a cost, as she and most her friends also are juggling homework and
afterschool activities. Just no one else has activities that interfere with
school, yet. So they are also paying the cost without the "privilege".

Cathy Kearns...

This is exactly they types of snotty replies I'm trying to keep my daughter
away from. In this particular case, the ballet school in question though
well known takes anyone, and just puts them in levels. I'm not sure what
level this girl is in, I'd guess she does well for her age, but not
counting the hours of driving, she spends less time in dance than my
daughter does in tennis clinics and practices. (And way less then my dancing
daughter does in dance classes and practices...) Her parents just like the
cache of the dance school, the opportunity for the kid parts in the
Nutcracker, the chance to meet the dancers, and I think that is fine. When
she gets older, if she looks like she really wants to be a professional
ballerina, I wouldn't be surprised if they moved her to the closer school
that has a less famous name but better training for the young dancers and a
reputation of turning out dancers that make it into big city ballet
companies. (And I know, I have an older daughter who dances...) So this
isn't really a "take something up at that level" argument. More of a "some
families just need a little extra from school to make their schedules work."
Compare it to days missed due to being a ball kid in a locl pro tournament.
An opportunity the family didn't want her to miss.

However, getting back to the snotty high level comment. I live in an area
where many parents have the resources to allow their children to follow
their dreams. There are many, many kids with talent on traveling teams, in

Ericka Kammerer...

Oh, when you said she was a "gifted dancer" I got
a different impression of what she was up to. Sorry. I
do have a beef with kids who think that kids who perform/
compete at an elite level are somehow getting it easy.
Those kids give up a lot. One might debate whether they
*should*, or whether that level of intensity is appropriate
for kids, and all that, but those kids do work hard and
give up a lot. Doesn't excuse arrogant behavior over it,
but it certainly isn't cause for someone else to be jealous
of them or think they're somehow getting away with something.
But if we're just talking about taking some classes
at a name brand dance studio, that's a different ball of wax.
Nevertheless, if the situation is such that your daughter
would be accommodated if, say, she had a tennis tournament
or something, then your daughter has a case for faulting
this girl for dawdling/arrogance/etc., but not for getting
special privileges, which is really the main issue.

Best wishes,
Ericka

traveling orchestras, in theatre groups that perform during school. They may
be the next Brandi Chastain, Jon Stewart or Issak Perlman, but at this point
its impossible to guarantee that. To get to a high level of achievement
we've found mostly takes money and drive. And yes, my daughter would love
to have more tennis clinics and lessons. Heck, if we were independently
wealthy she would love to own a horse and trailer it to hunt shows up and
down the coast. (My older daughter has friends that do this...) But
finances limit us to one lesson a week, and one show a year. I would never
taunt her about taking up an activitiy at "that level", because frankly, we
can't afford it.

cjrohr31...

PLease don't take this the wrong way, but do you perhaps have
resentment towards the girl or her family that may be rubbing off on
your daughter? Or did the above only come about in response to Ericka's

bizby40...

I agree with pretty much everything you've written here. Except
that I don't think I'd even open the door to the possibility that
she doesn't need it. If my daughter said, "But I've *seen* her
writing" or some such, I'd just tell her that there are experts at
the school that evaluate these things, and that they wouldn't
excuse her from writing if there wasn't a good reason for it.

an588...

I wouldn't say she must need it if the experts say so,
because I don't happen to believe that that's true.
But I might say something like that it's difficult
for the experts to figure out who needs accomodation
and who doesn't, and they do the best they can.

dragonlady...

I'm thinking about this -- I'm not sure I would put it that way to a
child. I think it opens the door to the child second guessing what the
other child actually DOES need -- and I see nothing good coming out of
that.

bizby40...

I agree and was going to say something similar. As I said
before, my DD is big on fairness, if I opened the door to
the possibility that this girl might be getting extra help that
she doesn't even need, that's all she'd focus on. Pretty
soon she'd be convinced that's what happened. I see
nothing good coming out of that either.

Certainly at another time talking about how these things are done in a
more theoretical way, and being open about whether you think the experts
are always right, is likely to happen, and is not inappropriate.

But wrt a particular child, and in response to a particular situation, I
think I'd be inclined to stop at, "The people who make these decisions
have good reasons for making these accomodations." That isn't, in any
way, saying you agree with them, or lying to the child -- the folks
making the decisions DO have good reasons for what they do.

And, without being in the room, you have no way of knowing if this is
one of the instances with which you would agree or not.

I just think it's important to distinguish between discussing the entire
process, and discussing one specific child, and when the discussion is
about one particular child, all of the children will be better served by
NOT opening up to the discussion of whether or not the experts are right
in THIS instance.

But that's only because my own daughter is so caught up in the
whole fairness thing that if she caught a whiff of unfairness, she'd
focus on that to the exclusion of everything else I said.

bizby40...

I'm pretty sure that the school wouldn't be allowed to educate
the class about her disability without direct permission from
her parents. And at this age, she'd probably really resist
the idea.

post? I ask only because, it does *sound* like you may feel the kid has
advantages your kid does not due to money/circumstances whatever. But
maybe it was just your attempt to correct the misperception.

Cathy Kearns...

I personally like the daughter, and think she is doing quite well
considering the quirks of her parents. I don't doubt the girl needs the
typing machine and other accomodations in the classroom. But because of her
parents' past history of over reacting, I can see why the kids are
skeptical. That is why I wanted a way to explain to my daughter that this
was not unfair, and certainly not the girl's fault. (I really like the
responses that pointed out it was not just the parents choice to have the
typing machine, the school teachers worked it out too. That is something I
think my daughter didn't realize, and helped her see the light. Also the big
project that required a ton of drawing is over, and my daughter is very
proud of her result, so I think that helped.) The reason I brought up the
dance classes was it just added to why my daughter thought it was unfair,
even though it was really a separate issue.

However, I do take exception to people (and note, this was Ericka, on this
news group, not the original little girl or her family) taunting kids
because they don't have opportunities. Ericka implied that my daughter and
her friends aren't at a certain level because they lack commitment. No,
it's because their parents can't afford that many lessons. I don't have any
problem with parents that do have the resources to give their kids that kind
of opportunity. But to have anyone, especially adults, imply a child isn't
at a high enough level to get special accomodations because of some fault of
their own, well, that is just unseemly. Judging from my daughters and their
friends, I'd say when a child finds a passion they are in heaven given the
opportunity to spend 20 hours a week doing that. Yes it is hard work, but
when they love it, they don't see it that way. So I take big exception to
the comment that most kids wouldn't trade 15 minutes at the end of the
school day for the hours spent practicing at their dream. Most kids would
jump at an opportunity to follow their dream to elite status, even the girl
in the original post I presume, but very few actually have that opportunity,
not because of drive, or talent, but because of money.

hemulen27...

Woah - oversensitive much? I do think you're straining to find
something negative in an innocuous observation.

I'm sure Ericka is more than capable of defending herself - however,
from what I could see she was merely trying to say that, while it looks
as though "gifted" children have a charmed life, most of us wouldn't
swap places with them for anything. And yes, while there are probably a
quite a few undiscovered virtuoso children out there simply because
their parents aren't in a position to put in them special classes, etc,
there are also probably quite a few "gifted" children who wish their
parents weren't quite so pushy. And, in fact, most kids will never be
geniuses or virtuosos, no matter how many extra classes they take
because it's not just a matter of practice, it comes down to talent in
the end and most of us are average, not gifted.

At the end of the day, some kids have unrealised gifts, some have
overly pushy parents and some lucky children have their potential met
by exactly the right amount of stimulus and support - that's just life.

And I don't believe it's "snotty" or "unseemly" to point out that most
kids just want to be normal, which is what I believe was Ericka's main
point!

Though I agree with this should be no skin off my daughter's nose. And it's
not like she's missing tests. At least two days a week she's missing PE or
band practice.

My 5th grade son has some kids in his class with
accommodations. I'm not sure of the exact situation,
but he claims they essentially don't have to do work,
which I'm sure isn't quite the case ;-) At any rate,
I just explain that some kids have a disability that
affects their ability to work in certain ways, and
that there's a formal process involving parents, teachers,
school officials, and specialists in order to identify
what, if any, accommodations are appropriate simply
to give those kids the opportunity to learn what they
need to learn. This is a GT class, so it took him a
few minutes to wrap his brain around someone being
smarter than usual, but still challenged in some
non-obvious way. It also took him some time to
deal with the idea that even though he has some
learning issues, they're not severe enough for an
IEP, while those other kids' issues were severe
enough for one. We had to spend some time discussing
that in the long run, if he doesn't *require*
accommodation, he's developing valuable skills that
will help him function later on when accommodations
are less available even if he's working a bit harder
than the average bear right now. It still gets his
goat on occasion, but he mostly understands.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Barbara Bomberger...

Others have answered very well. I would only point out, as the parent
of a child who does get to use an "alpha smarts keyboard system" that
just because a child can do some writing does not mean they do not
need the keyboard. If my child were to write all day long, he would
be in severe pain because of motore issues. Now that he's in high
school, every classroom has a PC and doing almost all homework
including finals on the PC is acceptable.