Rude or am I expecting too much?

It was niece's birthday last week. I was at her grandma's (my mum) house
when my niece was picked up from school. She responded to my greeting of
"hello" then proceeded to go through a few of the plastic bags that were
lying on the floor in the living room. When they yielded nothing, she moved
on into the kitchen and proceeded to do the same. When that yielded nothing
yet again (her present was in Matt's nappy bag so not easily found) she came
back to the living room and started to play on the floor while sneaking
expectant looks at me.

When she sat down in the living room, I got up, went to the nappy bag, took
out the present, said "happy birthday" and handed over the present. My niece
just took it. No "thank you", no "kiss my a$$", nothing. Just took it and
unwrapped it. It was exactly what she had asked for for months on end (male
Bratz doll, took me weeks to find one as they seem to have been off the
market in Sydney for a while and finally I found one a couple of weeks ago)
and had been talking of nothing for weeks but of her hope to get one of
these. When she actually gets one, there's not even a grunt of appreciation,
she just puts the box down without opening it and continues to play with
whatever she had been holding beforehand.

All this took about a minute so it's not like I was holding out on her or
torturing her by not thrusting a present at her the moment she walked
through the door. So I wasn't expecting this level of resentment when I
actually gave her the present!

Am I being unreasonable in thinking that a kid turning 7 years old would be
expected to say "thank you"? I'm not asking for a great outpouring of
emotion and exclamations of "you got me my heart's desire and I will love
you forever for this" or for her to go dancing around the room pronouncing
my greatness. I just kind of thought she'd say "thank you"... At what age do
kids normally learn the social norm of thanking people for gifts?

toypup...

I don't know. DS is 5yo and he is naturally good at it. In fact, he can
gush over a t-shirt, which I never would expect, but I think it's just the
fact that it's a gift that he's excited about.

Engram...

My sister used to be exactly the same - even as a little kid her face would
light up and she'd gush "Oh, THANK you" when someone gave her something, no
matter what it was.

I guess some kids are just naturally effusive (and at 28 my sister still can
be like that!) while others are more reserved. I suppose it'll come with
time. And one day MY kid will fail to thank someone who will have exactly
the same reaction as I did! :)

Tori M...

I had an Uncle by marrage that liked to give us gifts more then he liked to
give his own kids things because we actualy liked what he gave us and showed
gratitude even if we didnt.. lol

To answer your orriginal question, I know some kids that act like that and
it irritates me. I have no idea where these kids get the attitude but they
are very dismissive of adults in general. The blank stare and going back to
what they where doing is the part that annoys me.

Barbara...

Some kids are just like that. For One, adults are rather like the
furniture. They're wonderful to have around, particularly if they
might have something you'd like (a bottle of water in the park, a
bandage if you cut yourself). They're also necessary to setting up
playdates or if you need a ride somewhere. He'll answer if directly
addressed, and is generally polite, but he'd never choose to interact
wtih an adult on purpose. I suppose some people find that annoying.

Penny Gaines...

[snip]

It is also somewhat egotistical of an adult to assume that they and
their ideas are intrinsically more interesting to a child, rather
then the thing the child was doing already. Just like adults, sometimes
prefer the thing they were doing to the other person who interupts,
it's just the adult has learnt to hide it.

That really is one of the few areas where I say *tough luck to them*
Its his personality. I was like that as a kid, and so was DH. I'm not
going to force him to be someone that he'd not.

Barbara

enigma...

Boo has started doing this recently & it's very annoying.
it's like he *expects* to be given gifts & he's so dismissive
of them.
the prime example is the playset. he's wanted one of those
wooden playsets, with the fort, rock climbing wall, monkey
bars, swings, etc. for years. i found one for a really good
price, still expensive, but i figured i could squeeze it into
the budget. on the day it was delivered we sent him over to
play at a friend's house & assembled it while he was gone.
when he came back (with his friend) we had to point this
*huge* playset out to him (despite it being in plain view from
the driveway & house) & his only comment was "oh, it doesn't
have a cargo net or spiral slide". argh!

eliz_reid...

Well, my son is kind of like this, and I have no idea where the
attitude comes from, either. He's four, and he frequently won't say hi
to people who say hi to him, not because he's particularly shy, he just
doesn't want to. He will usually greet people whom he actually cares
about, but if someone's not close to him, he doesn't see the need to
return a hello. He also requires a great deal of prompting (and
sometimes whispered threats from my end) to say "thank you" for
presents. Some kids seem to come pre-equipped with a desire to please
others, and some don't. Actually, DH is also very take-it-or-leave it
when it comes to pleasing people just to please them, so maybe it's not
really such a mystery where it comes from!

I've had a lot of trouble coming up with reasonable and effective
consequences for this behavior, especially where simple hellos and
goodbyes are concerned. At least where presents are concerned, he
knows he can't keep the present unless he delivers an appropriate thank
you, although this doesn't help in cases where the present isn't
something he wants in the first place.

toypup...

I did have an incident when we were visiting IL's. Those visits tend to
wear the kids out, because we are somewhere everyday. We visited some
friends of their family and he was given a football. It was time to leave
and he was very tired and grumpy and said he didn't like it -- wouldn't

cailleach...

How about -- apologise for him, get him out of there, and after you get
home, insist that he write/make a thank-you note. Use whatever threats
you like until the job's done!

toypup...

We did aplogize for him. IL's also apologize. I like the thank-you note
idea; though at the time, he couldn't write. He can now, so we will do
that. Thanks.

Moments like these are just so embarrassing. The fact that we don't spank
and we can't get him to turn around and say "thank you" just makes me feel
like a bad mom, because others get the impression that we don't discipline
and are just letting it slide.

cailleach...

Yes, even kids who are mostly polite can sometimes get into a difficult
mood from tiredness or over-excitement, and if punishment only makes
matters worse then it's better to handle things offline.

DS has lots of problems with behaviour and communication, including
greetings, goodbyes, thank-yous and apologies, and that can get *very*
embarrassing. Hence the written notes. And for some reason DS finds
written apologies easier than spoken ones - goodness knows why, but
it's useful because it really impresses people :-)

Anyway, IMO there's no such thing as *perfect* discipline that always
gets children to do exactly what we want them to do! So just you hang
on to what *you* believe is the best discipline for your child and
don't let worry over other people's attitudes derail you.

toypup...

Thanks. I need to keep reminding myself that. In fact, one of the things I
detested most as a kid was my mom would discipline us whenever visitors
commented on something we were doing. Usually, we were allowed to do it,
like bike to a store a distance away. They expressed disapproval and
suddenly, we were in trouble for riding our bike out of bounds! There were
no bounds until the visitors made a comment. I vowed never to do that. I
haven't yet. I just have to keep reminding myself.

nimue...

Ugh. You poor thing. I guess your mom relied too heavily on the approval
of others, and her lack of trust in herself wound up hurting you. You can't
rely on a parent who bends to the will -- or comments! -- of others. You
never know what you will get and the boundaries are all confused.

Btdt, lots :-)

Cailleach

aplogize, wouldn't say thank you. I don't spank. Other than taking away
his priveleges from him, I wasn't sure of a good course of action for him.
Taking away priveleges doesn't seem to work very well. He occasionally gets
in such a mood where he is rude to visitors or hosts. At home, we can send
him to his room. That's not a good solution when the guest is leaving and
we are trying to get him to say goodbye, as it is hurtful to the guest. Any
suggestions?

Rosalie B....

My suggestion for any kind of situation like this would be - thank
the present giver yourself, and apologize to them for your child's
behavior. Tell them that you are ashamed of the child's behavior in
the hearing of the child. (Not ashamed of the child himself, just his
behavior) And make no excuses for the child to the present giver.
But indicate that there will be consequences for the child. (Don't
specify what the consequences will be, because you have to give
yourself room to think about it first.) Then remove yourself and the
child ASAP.

When you get home and things are calmer, have the child make an
appropriate apology and thanks - that is if he is of an age to be able
to write, have him write a note.

eliz_reid...

None from me.. but I sympathize, the hardest cases are 1) when the
present isn't desired, 2) there aren't any "good" presents associated
with it to threaten to withhold, and c) it's in a high-pressure
situation where removal from the scene isn't practical. I have to
admit, I was just thinking that probably the traditional punishment for
this kind of thing is spanking, since it's really hard to come up with
a natural consequence for failing to thank for undesirable presents
from people you rarely see. I don't spank either, but I'm at a loss
for something else to do.

Barbara...

Well, I don't necessarily believe that the only consequences of a
child's actions have to naturally flow from that action. In this case,
however, I would caution my child that he would not be permitted to
receive *any* presents until he was able to demonstrate that he could
accept *all* presents -- whether or not particularly desired --
gracefully.

eliz_reid...

Actually, I do say that. What I find, though, is that when there
aren't any other presents imminent - like, they're not in the room and
tomorrow's not his birthday or Christmas - his behavior isn't affected.
I can say, "If you don't say thank you for this present, you can't get
any presents," and he'll say, "I don't *want* any presents!" He's not
terribly materialistic, so the abstract threat of never getting any
presents again doesn't mean a lot to him unless it's likely to have an
impact in the very near future.

toypup...

LOL. I just posted a similar response re: DS. They must be twins.

I've been thinking about staging some rehearsals of this for him since
that might be the only way I can effectively address it. I might have
a trusted friend give him a "bad" present, and when he doesn't thank
her for it, we show him another present he would have gotten had he
said thank you. Repeat until he offers appropriate thanks for the

nimue...

That is totally manipulative and does not resemble any situation he would
encounter in real life. I think he would resent you for playing games with
him. I think the best course of action is to model the behavior you want to
see, then discuss it with the child afterwards. When you get a gift,
enthusiastically thank the person. Afterwards, talk with your child about
how your reaction made the gift-giver feel good and how that, in turn, gave
you happiness, too. Let the kid see how a person't reactions affect those
around him and come from a place where you are appealing to his best
instincts and strengths.

first present spontaneously. I don't know, though, he may well realize
that this is an awfully contrived situation so the behavior might not
carry over, or he may react even more inappropriately if he's given a
"bad" present, says thank you, and doesn't get a good present.

Banty...

Yep.

But I think all that's needed is a little discussion with the child afterwards
about gift acceptance.

I think *part* of the problem here is this idea, that we all have until we
unlearn it as parents :), that kids learn to behave by being taught
badda-bing-badda-boom. So, if a kid doesn't say "thank you" and act
appropriately about it, someone somewhere forgot to push the "say thank you and
always accept gifts gracefully" button on them.

There's a *process* to teaching kids that has to involve their own development.
At seven, a kid's orientation is simply NOT about how what they're doing
affects the feelings of others. IT's not natural to them yet. They need to
*work* on it, with their parent's help.

Most toddlers I know, know how to say "thank you" and will do that in the right
circumstances. The hard part, and the part that many *adults* have problems
with is, to go through these motions for the sake of others' feelings and peace
in the social circle when they dont' like the present, don't feel good at the
moment, don't really feel connected to the giver, etc. etc.

That takes time, effort, and some growing up, and I don't think it's the kind of
thing some punishment instills very well.

toypup...

Sometimes, I think spanking is a good idea, but it's not in me and I think
I'd be heading down a slippery slope; because if it works, I'd be tempted to
use it more often.

You could give bonnie a cardboard box and she would be excited :P

enigma...

oh yeah, Boo could play with a box for weeks. i am seriously
considering not getting him anything for the winter holidays.
i know he doesn't get the concept of 'play', but adding on the
rudeness just really bugs me.
lee

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Matthew 21 June 2005
DD EDD 06 Oct 2006

Check out our family at

toypup...

Yes, I think you've got it.

Chookie...

When their parents teach them. Don't think of your niece as rude: think of
her parents as failing to bring her up properly! Give them an etiquette book
for Christmas (now that's rude!!).

At 5yo, DS1 can -- when prompted -- say 'please', 'thank you', 'may I
have...', 'thank you for coming' and 'thank you for having me'. Sometimes I

Welches...

Interestingly #2 is naturally polite. Since she was 18 months or so she's
always gone for the "please" and "thank you" without being asked. She'll
tell someone that something is pretty, kind, nice etc and seems to know the
"right" thing to say. And she acts up to it too, with a smile.The only bit
that doesn't come naturally is "sorry".
#1 I really have to work at and I always had to. Some of it is shyness.
She'll whisper "thank you" at the end of a party, but not so anyone can
hear. Some of it is a strong liking for the truth without tact. She finds it
hard to know that "I've already got one and I didn't like that one either"
(not one she's actually used) isn't acceptable because it's the truth. As
she said one time when I was explaining "but that's telling a lie" (if I
don't like it) I've given her a list of things she can say that are fairly
neutral, sound pretty grateful, but aren't untrue. (Along the lines of "the
purple matches the colour in my room. Thank you".) I still have to remind
her even if it's something she's really pleased with, but she's not bad on
saying "sorry".
Debbie

don't have to prompt him, either! I don't know when the prompting will stop,
though.

Ericka Kammerer...

Well, you already know the answer to that question.
Of course it was rude. Seven year olds are sometimes
uncivilized, so one makes some allowances, but at the very
least a parent should have been on hand to prompt her for
some more acceptable behavior.

Best wishes,
Ericka

bizby40...

I don't think her behavior was out of the norm for her age. Yes, she
should have said thank you, and yes, many kids would have done so at
her age. But many would still need prompting by an adult -- even if
they'd been taught to say it from a young age. As for looking around
hopefully for the present? Normal. And not reacting enthusiastically
about the present she'd been begging for? *sigh* Also quite normal.
<======speaking from experience.

Engram...

I figured that looking around for the present was pretty normal and that
thank you most likely slipped her mind. I guess it was the total dismissal
of the present after actually looking for it and saying she wanted it for so
long that kind of threw me. I suppose the real problem was my expectation
that she would at least acknowledge it rather than just cast it aside. LOL

Penny Gaines...

[snip]

It is posible that the description of the item she gave you was nothing
like the item she wanted, and that you got her male Bratz with the red
motorbike, when she really wanted the male Bratz with the scarlet
motorbike.

Anyway, you sound like a thoughtful aunt, and she sounds like a
typical 7yo.

Oh, well. I suppose my kids will do exactly the same thing to someone some
time in the future!

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Matthew 21 June 2005
DD EDD 06 Oct 2006

Check out our family at

Rose Garten...

I say both. She was being rude and you were expecting too much out of
child from today's society. I don't know what the parents expectations
are of said niece but I think that manners in general have gone out the
window for kids today. For DD fourth birthday party I told her ahead of
time that she was expected to politely say thank you after each gift. I
didn't care if she absolutely hated it and never look at it again after
we left but she would be polite at the time. When I told her she did a
great job of thanking everyone she said but mommy I liked all of my
gifts. I remind her of this but she still slips occasionally saying
thank you. Usually it happens in very casual setting. DH and I both
feel that too many kids today have terrible manners and we make a point
of complimenting parents and/or children who we see being polite.

RichardM...

Just a thought, could be it be that if she'd been after it for months -
did she have it already? I'm thinking back to when I was that age and
got a present twice and remember thinking I didnt know what to say and
just went quiet.

Engram...

She definitely didn't have it. This is a kid I see twice a week when I visit
my mum, who babysits my sisters toddler twins and picks up the eldest from
school. I had seen her two days beforehand and she was saying how much she
hoped she gets this particular doll. Then on the actual birthday, I was at

bizby40...

Yep, yep, yep. Sitting there trying to insist that they be polite
right then is just awkward and embarrassing for everybody involved.
When my daughter was younger, I didn't even prompt her to say sorry,
or thank you after a while, because I knew it would turn into a scene.
Instead, *I* would say it. Then I'd get her home and have her write
a thank you, or apology, or whatever was needed.

toypup...

Yes, it is awkward and embarrassing. I think I will try what you and
Cailleach suggest and forget about forcing a polite remark at the time.

my mum's way before she picked up my niece from school and saw all the other
presents my niece had been given - not a male Bratz doll or "Ken" (male
Barbie, the other she said she wanted if she couldn't have the Bratz one)
amongst what she got from the parents and grandparents. So mine wasn't a
repeat gift.

Her mom, or grandma, or whoever was caring for her should have
reminded her to thank you. Failing that, as her aunt, you would have
been within bounds to prompt her yourself.

Jeff...

I more concerned about her mom's and dad's behavior. Shouldn't they have
said something like, "You've been wanting that for months. Auntie took a lot
of time to find that for you. Did you thank her for it? How about a hug and
kisss?" Even if Mom or Dad weren't in the room at the time, the continued
reinforcment of the politeness lesson does get its point across.

Engram

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Matthew 21 June 2005
DD EDD 06 Oct 2006

Check out our family at