is this normal?

I just want an opinon on if what I/we are experiencing now is normal for
this stage of parenting. We have 2 kids, 2 years apart, 3.5 and 1.5, it does
seem that I am struggling more than my husband, but we are both drained,
physically and emotionally right now, we don't really know whether it is par
for the course, or whether it's additional circumstances, if it's just
normal, we might ride it out rather easier than if it turns out not to be as

Anne Rogers...

And that's why I've not unsubbed, but I do the spirit of it and start with
baby steps, I write down the most basic of routines, but at times, even the
most simple, tiny routine becomes too much, so I might miss it once, I try
not to feel guilty and just do it again the next day, but with the best will
in the world, it cuts into the habit and it's broken the habit that has
taken so long to establish. There is also the aspect of when you write it
down and realise what you do do and how much needs to be done and therefore
is being done by someone else (DH) and that is so hard to admit. When you
fail at a routine that is small and insufficient, however hard you try to
say, don't feel guilty, don't try to catch up etc. it does gnaw away at you.

That sounds horribly negative and un flylady, but that is where I am right
now, I'm doing great with my routine of getting clothes ready for the next
day, if I don't do it one day, I'm not cutting myself up about it, I can see
the difference it makes in the morning, which gives me the incentive to do
it. Next step in my mind is some decluttering, I'm going to start with our
bedroom, I'm not going to keep switching week on week, more like doing the
worst room strategy, and I think our bedroom is the worst room, it's so big
that it's ended up with bits of furniture from at least 3 different rooms
pre move and equivalent contents and then some! So it's 5mins a day in the
master bedroom for me!

Chookie...

Sounds like a great idea!

Anne Rogers...

thanks for taking the time to post that :-), I've just popped onto the
computer after doing my first lot of 5mins, I'm impressed with how much I
did, the area at the end of the bed which was really messy is almost clear.
Fingers crossed that as I do this slowly but surely, it will also encourage
DH, there are definitely things around that are his and his alone and a
whole heap of stuff that is general, or kids, if he does a bit too, we could
have a really neat bedroom in under a month, which will then be a haven and
an incentive to do the same to other rooms!

Penny Gaines...

Well done!

If you don't like Flylady, there are there websites which are much less
ridgid.

The whole ethos of the site tends to be much more "what will work for
you" rather then "you must start here". On the discussion boards, the
members use a variety of methods, from changing focus every week to
concentrating on one room for a month.

bizby40...

The problem we have is that there are so many of these little hot
spots that you do one, and that leaves so many others. Long before
we've gotten the last one taken care of, all the early ones we did are
right back to clutter. Sure we try to keep an area clear once it's
been cleared, but whatever the reason was that it got cluttered in the
first place still exists, and so in the end, it gets cluttered again.

Thanks again

the kids grow, our circumstances are not likely to change that much. It's
not as if we have particularly challenging kids, though it's clear observing
other kids that ours may be more physically demanding than some, whilst
being less of an intellectual or emotional challenge, but on the other hand,
two small children are always going to be exhausting and maybe we are just
at the time into it where it really hits.

I think we are both at the point were we feel we NEED a holiday without the
kids, whereas previously that would just have been something that would have
been nice had anyone offered to have the kids for a weekend. Now it's become
a need, we're in a situation where it just isn't going to happen, there
would be a possibility of arranging it for July, but I'd actually like to
spend the time with my parents rather than have them look after the kids and
it would be a bit much to expect them to look after the kids in our house in
an area and country they are entirely unfamiliar with.

It feels like we are doing the right things to help ourselves, we each have
some activities we do, DH sings in a choir and I'm part of a La Leche League
group and I'm also taking a quilting class, we each have something that is
"ours". One thing we are not doing is having a date night, having not found
a babysitter, perhaps we should more actively pursue that, though I'm not
very comfortable with going through an agency, and we regularly have offers
of leaving our kids at a parents night out Ada's day care, but I really
dislike the idea of leaving them out of the home in the evening, it's
unlikely either would go to sleep and we'd then have to take them home,
they'd fall asleep in the car and we'd have the work of transferring them to
bed.

One thing we have decided today, is we will get a cleaner, we don't care
whether we feel we shouldn't need it, we can afford it and it would help, so
we might as well do it!

Ericka Kammerer...

I think it is very normal to sometimes be overwhelmed
with the physical demands of chasing two small children around
all the time, especially given your continuing physical challenges.
Why don't you look into going on a vacation where
there's a great kids program, so that you can be apart from
the kids for a little while? Some places have really great
programs, though it's harder to find programs that will take
non-potty trained toddlers. Still, that might work for you.

Anne Rogers...

I think that shows just how drained/exhausted I am I didn't even think of
that! Only problem I can see is that we do want to take this trip to CA in
February, that will use up 5 days holiday for DH and cash and I don't think
it would be sensible for him to take any more holiday until May at the
earliest.

You still have plenty of time to vacation with the kids as
well, but also manage to get a few hours to yourselves and
a bit of a break from chasing them. Our kids tend to love
the programs and get upset if we *don't* schedule them
some time there.
Also, what are the hours for parents' night out?
How far away is it? What night of the week is it? Can
you do it so that it's not a night where the kids need to
be up early the next day and time it so that you're not
out terribly far past their bedtime? I'm all for routine,

Anne Rogers...

it's about a mile away, they usually offer a range of options, earliest
start being about 5, min stay 4hrs (or min pay!), it's often on a Saturday
night, which means we would then have to take the decision not to go to
Saturday evening church (which is our regular service) and go on Sunday, ot
not as the case may be, but it means missing something that is a major time
in the week when we do catch up with friends and nuture new relationships,
so it wouldn't seem entirely productive.

Ericka Kammerer...

I'd probably at least bite the bullet and go when it's
not on a Saturday night, then. Even though you have to pay for
4 hours, that doesn't mean you can't pick the kids up earlier
if that works better for you.

Anne Rogers...

I could put money on there not being one on a different night for yonks now!

but a little bump in the road now and again usually isn't
the end of the earth. Often they're so excited after something
like parents' night out that they *don't* crash in the car
if you don't have too long a drive. What have you got to
lose if you just try it once to see if it works?
What each individual and each couple needs to
stay reasonably replenished varies considerably, so it's
hard to say what's reasonable or not or to make
authoritative claims that doing X, Y, or Z will fix
you right up. I think if you feel you need to get
away, you should try to arrange that, if at all possible.
The kids *will* get older and the physical demands won't
be quite the same anymore. Sometimes you make decisions
to do what you need to do to get by for a year or two,
even if it means compromising some other things that would
normally be a higher priority.

Anne Rogers...

I would agree, the problem I see is that I think we're already on the just
getting by stage, so I don't see what we can compromise on iyswim.

Ericka Kammerer...

Sometimes you do just get by for a while, but you
hope that's not a long term situation.

Personally, I find that it helps to visit with
other parents so the kids can play together. I get a
little social time, the kids get some social time, and
it's usually less demanding to keep up with them when

Welches...

My dad loves labels on drawers, cupboards etc. Once he labelled his drawers
and the top one had "left socks, right ***" on it. He told mum to make sure
everything was in the right place. So she put half the socks away and said
she couldn't find the drawer for the right socks.
Debbie

they've got friends to play with. It may take a little
while before you develop networks of friends where you
can do this, but you'll get there bit by bit.

Anne Rogers...

I'm still a way of from developing networks and the people I do know mostly
live on the other side of the lake, which makes it a bit tricky as it's a
huge obstacle to get round in terms of traffic at many times of day. Though
I do have a potential invite for tomorrow, so I must return the call.

Some people find that it helps to work your
schedule so that you know what you're doing at any
particular time, rather than just ambling through the
day reacting to whatever happens. To some extent you
have to deal with whatever needs the kids have at the
time, but it's easy to fritter away all your time.

Anne Rogers...

I don't tend to schedule time we are actually at home, but we seem to be so
busy that some days we are hardly there! Today I'm home for a couple of
hours now, but we've already done day care drop off for Ada (she goes 2
days), then I had physical therapy for an hour and DS was at the day care at
the gym, then we popped to Fred Meyer and then had a picnic together, took
him in to preschool, then home, I have to collect him early and take him
with me to two appointments this afternoon, then it's off to pick up Ada. I
think that is part of the problem, there is too much going on, but it's not
like I'm dashing around doing non essentials like kindermusik that I could
cut out, I'm in physical therapy 3 times a week and it's not a case of being
able to be disciplined and do the home program, I do that much because I do
two sessions the pilates equipment and one in the pool, not things I could
do at home. I do sometimes wish I achieved more with my time, but
realistically, when I actually look at my schedule, I'm getting through an
awful lot of stuff, it just isn't housework!

Ericka Kammerer...

Sometimes life kind of takes over. Do the best you can
to organize your activities so that they create a reasonable
schedule.

With some planning, you might be able to synch up naps
or find some times during the day where you can take
a few minutes to refresh yourself. I find that if I

Anne Rogers...

DS no longer naps regularly in the day, we have a reasonable routine with
Ada and I do really notice the difference if we have a bad day nap wise for
her, like one afternoon last week, DS is pretty good though when she naps,
we usually make it rest time for him and he watches a movie or something and
I can have time to myself, but it never refreshes. The only thing I can
think of is learning some kind of deep relaxation and doing that, but as
yet, I haven't found any resources to help with that.

Ericka Kammerer...

That works for some people. It may also be the case
that you're just up against the wall given your physical
challenges. Pain can be very wearying. Sometimes an
attitude adjustment helps. If you keep telling yourself
how overburdened you are, it will be very difficult for
you to be refreshed by those short periods of time. It

Anne Rogers...

It's hard to find the balance, I think a good percentage of the time, I have
a good attitude, I don't say, oh no, she's only going to sleep for 2hours
max, I do think, great, now I can have a cup of tea and listen to something
on the radio, but obviously by the very fact I made this post at all, I have
got to a point where I'm saying this is not working. You may have seen last
week, I posted about a scary sleep disturbance I had, now it seems they are
strongly related to sleep deprivation and stress, I don't feel stressed, but
I do feel sleep deprived, though really I shouldn't, I ought to be getting
enough, I think my sleep must just not be as restful as it should.

will never seem like enough. If you try to experience those
times mindfully, it might help. Make sure your expectations
are in line with reality. With two small children and
physical challenges, it may be too much to expect that
you're going to feel perky much of the time for the moment.

Anne Rogers...

I'm definitely not expecting to feel perky, but I'm at a point where things
are just becoming unsafe, my reactions are slowed down, driving is really
hard, and so on, I guess my expectation is that things are going to be hard,
but that they shouldn't be plain unsafe. I think I mentioned DD had an ear
infection at her 18mth check that we didn't know about, also the ongoing
nappy rash, that we hadn't even thought to take her to the doctor, or that
it might be fungal, it's like we're running on auto pilot and we just didn't
step back and see what is retrospectively blindingly obvious.

I don't know if that's true or not, but you need to do
a realistic assessment of what you need to cope with right
now and what you can do. If you've got more to do than
you can really cope with, then you either farm out some
tasks or you understand you're living with a deficit for
a while and try to lay in some long-term plans that get
you out of the hole so that at least you see a light at
the end of the tunnel.

Anne Rogers...

so I think I'm being realistic, which means I'm onto stage 2, after I posted
last night, I left a couple of messages with cleaning people, I'll call them
again tomorrow if no one gets back to us, but I'm not sure what other tasks
we can farm out. I guess a session at somewhere like Dinners Ready might
sort out food for a while, as I just can't see a big freezer cooking session
occuring any time soon. The light at the end of a tunnel is more tricky,

Ericka Kammerer...

I do this. I think it helps. Have DH do it, as I'm
assuming it would be a challenge for you to stand that long.
Or, most of these places have an option where they'll prepare
the meals and you just have to pick them up (for more money,
of course--don't know if that's an option).

Anne Rogers...

it would be pushing it for me, but I'd have to schedule it for a weekend
anyway, so at least I wouldn't have to go back to childcare duties
afterwards! We'll have to look into it a bit more, we thought about it last
month, but January's menu just didn't take our fancy, so we did a big
freezer cook, which was really hard, but we split it up a lot more than
others seem to and I got off my feet in between mini sessions.

it's got to be baby steps, but right now I'm not seeing clearly what they
need to be etc.

Ericka Kammerer...

I would start by making an inventory of what you
do, and how much time it takes. If you start there, you
can then look at where you can get the most bang for the
buck in terms of farming things out. Play around with
it. Be creative and put everything on the table. For
instance, what if you dropped preschool and daycare and
hired a nanny instead? Would you be better off with
cleaners or with a college student who could come by
half time or so and work as a mother's helper and do
some light housekeeping?

Anne Rogers...

that makes so much sense, though I don't even know right now when I'm going
to be able to sit down with DH and work through things to see what would be
the best option.

If all else fails, do you have family who could
come stay with you for a while? Maybe a cousin/niece/
nephew who'd like to visit the US for an extended stay
and would be willing to help out in return?

Anne Rogers...

Ha, no such luck in this family :-(. No nieces and nephews on either side,
we're both the oldest child and I'm the oldest of my cousins and DH is
within 6mths of being the oldest cousin and they all seem to have purpose in
life, none fall into that not a student, but still living at home, really
need something to do category. My sister is planning to come out for a bit
between finishing writing up her thesis and starting a job, but the way
things are looking that time might vanish. I think that one just isn't going
to happen, whilst in the UK DH's mum did come down for a while, but it
wasn't ideal and only surviveable as she could go home at weekends, or DH's
dad would come down etc.

Best wishes,
Ericka

don't plan, I can spend the entire day never working
100 percent and never relaxing 100 percent. I'm
always doing something, but maybe not very efficiently.
If I plan, I can usually get more work done when I'm
working, better quality time with the kids when I'm
really paying attention to them, and better relaxation
time for me when I try to plan to have a few truly
uninterrupted minutes.
Mostly, though, I think you do what you can
and just get through the rest, realizing that they
won't always be this physically demanding.

Best wishes,
Ericka