preschool??

I've been avoiding thinking about this, but Micah will be old enough
for preschool in September. Any thoughts on their merits?? They are

toto...

I'm going back a ways, but both my children did go to preschool
primarily because it helped them find playmates. Almost everyone in
our area did preschool, so there were no kids around to play with
during the mornings if your child did not go.

Academically, kids don't *need* it, but it provides an opportunity for
messy play if you don't like doing that at home. It also provided
outdoor play every day (weather permitting), so I didn't feel like I
had to get out to the park myself.

A developmental play based preschool provides a lot of fun for kids
from 3 to 5 (before the K cutoff) and it was worth it for me to have
some time to run errands without having to take them with me. When
the older one went, it allowed one on one time with his sister. Once
she went, it allowed me time to myself.

pretty expensive where we are (the heart of Silicon Valley... where we
pay a high school girl $10/hour for babysitting!) and I seem to recall
reading that preschool doesn't actually do much in terms of academic
preparation -- and I'm not really that concerned with him *getting*

joni...

I agree that the advantage of kids going to preschool is, as a few
others mentioned, the social aspect of it. They get to meet other kids
their own age, and have to learn to share, take turns, and act civil in
a social setting by listening to one person (the teacher and or
assistants) and taking directions from them from time to time. It
REALLY sets them ahead of the bunch for kindergarten.

Cathy Kearns...

I live in the Silicon Valley, and in our school district the vast majority
of kids do go to some sort of preschool. And it really means they aren't
behind when they start kindergarten. They don't need really need to learn
much academically as letters and colors are covered in kindergarten. But
when they get to kindergarten they won't have to learn the structure. The
kindergarten teachers need to get a room full of five year old to listen
when required, work on projects without bothering the child next to them,
stand in line to enter the classroom, take turns, etc. The preschools are
extremely helpful in starting children on learning this structure. If you
are curious on what the kindergarten around you expects you can call your
local school. They might even have suggestions for lower cost preschools,
or even district run preschools in your neighborhood. The preschools that
are all full time large scale daycares are often the picture of what you
expect in preschool. But those are also likely to be more expensive, and
may not have half day programs for those not needing the full time daycare.
Other options include parent coop preschools that have the parents come in
and help once or twice a month. These are also good, but much less
expensive. That said, for some kids preschool isn't really an option, and
its not the end all if they don't go to preschool. They will still be fine
in kinder, it just may take them a tad longer to adjust.

academic prep at that age, anyway. It seems like a play-based

Anne Rogers...

Many preschools will have some kind of statement explaining this,
essentially, they don't want to usurp what they are going to do in
kindergarten and first grade, so whilst many kids could do some of the
actitivities, they don't, instead they enhance their learning in other ways.

Nathanael goes to one, 3 sessions a week, I am extremely pleased with it,
they have a large indoor space, with plenty of time for free play, a
reasonable sized and equipped outdoor space, including one that is partially
covered, so can be used in moderate rain. They do fantastic craft
activities, sing songs, read stories etc. I was really pleased with what
they did before Christmas, they had practiced a program that included songs
and reciting a verse, I think he learnt so much, about standing in line,
following the person, being quiet when other people were performing, taking
a bow at the end etc.

This is the only activity Nathanael does, other than church classes and I
really do think it is a good thing, you couldn't achieve the same stuff in a
home day care setting, they could acquire the same knowledge (i.e. not
much!), but not the social skills. I really think this will put him in a
better position for kindergarten, in that he will hopefully handle it much
better and therefore will learn better once he is there.

curriculum would be fun for him and give me a break, esp. with #2
coming in April, but I'm not sure that's enough to justify the expense.
On the other hand, our daycare provider is getting preschool certified
(whatever that means) and we coud just put him in there -- but while

joni...

It means that a certain percentage of time has to be spent actually
teaching the children and not just babysitting them while they play.

Ericka Kammerer...

I doubt that's what it means. I suspect that it
means that she's getting NAEYC certified, or something
similar. That means that she has acquired the appropriate
education and expertise to provide high quality early
childhood education, and that she runs her daycare in
accordance with the requirements of the standard to which
she is certified. Best practices in early childhood
education would suggest that playing *is* the most important
thing young children do.

Thats really a difference btwn a 'playschool' and a 'preschool'. My two
daughters went to preschool, and while I like to think they were bright
anyways for their ages, in preschool they went over numbers, the
alphabet, colors, shapes, etc etc alot that usually is a part of
kindergarten - so learning all this ahead of the pack was a real
advantage I think. They could already read by the time they started in

Ericka Kammerer...

I would disagree with this. While high quality early
childhood education does and should provide a great foundation
for academics, preschools that stress academic preparation don't
put kids at any kind of a sustainable advantage over those
who go to a school with a more developmentally oriented
curriculum. What is important is that the children are
exposed to a rich environment that gives them the opportunity
to develop through play. This will normally include lots
of play that encourages pre-literacy and numeracy skills,
among other things, but it shouldn't be obvious.

kindergarten (and starting to print/write) while the rest of the Kclass
were just beginning to learn their ABC's.

Ericka Kammerer...

And while this works for some kids, others are
not developmentally ready for this and pushing it only
leads to frustration and a dislike of school before it
even starts. The child who is wired to read early will
read early regardless of whether reading is pushed at
preschool (given any sort of decent home environment).
The rest will in no way be behind if they enter kindergarten
not reading. They'll pick up on it quickly and easily
as the material is presented in school. Or, if they're
going to struggle with reading, it is *really* discouraging
to start flogging it so early!
My two boys had no interest in reading at the
preschool level, and started kindergarten without being
able to read or even write all their letters. At almost
12 and 9 years old, they're both very bright, both very
successful academically, and DS1 reads almost as voraciously
as I do (which is saying something). My daughter looks like
she might be a more precocious reader, but even with that
I prefer her not to be in an academically oriented
preschool. She'll pick things up quickly and easily
in school, and she'll pick up reading whenever she's
ready. Meanwhile, she's having wonderful, creative
experiences that will stand her in very good stead in
the long run.

Anne Rogers...

Has anyone ever shown there is any long term advantage to this? I have this
suspicion that there isn't and for comparable kids, the ability at the end
of 2nd grade will be the same regardless of ability at the beginning of
kindergarten, but I couldn't drag out anything to back this up just now. My

Penny Gaines...

[snip]

Two of my kids went to a preschool with a semi-academic curriculum
(by which I mean letters and numbers were integrated into playing)
and the other kid went to a very play orientated playgroup. Like many
children in the UK with summer birthdays, they each started school
when they were 4 - 4.5yo.

They all got similar results in their Key Stage One Sats (taken by UK
kids at age 6-7yo).

hschinske...

I've never seen a preschool that taught anything very remarkable in the
way of reading and writing skills. I *have* seen ones that were far too
hot on getting tiny children to sit down and do worksheets and what
not. That's not what academically advanced kids tend to need from
preschool either. The play-based preschool my son went to *exposed*
kids to lots of academic stuff, but with no particular pressure to
learn any of it, and in a very free-wheeling context. I was most
impressed by some of the science activities they did, such as the life
cycle of butterflies. They did do letter of the week, but kids could
suggest words for the teacher to write on the big letter, and it could
be at any level -- so when they had "C," for instance, one kid could
say "cat" and one could say "Cretaceous period," and that was all fine.

My son could already read, and I'm not sure he ever even did most of
the writing activities, but I think he got a lot out of preschool. I
knew he was going to be one of the youngest in kindergarten, so it
helped a lot to get him used to a formal environment and getting along
in a class -- plus there are many small responsible habits that
children seem to learn much more easily in preschool than at home. I
don't think he was in class more than a few days before he started
routinely covering his face with his elbow when he coughed or sneezed,
for instance, which is the kind of habit he takes about six months to
learn from family members!

I'd look for (1) someplace your child will be happy and safe, (2)
someplace you can afford, (3) someplace that isn't too regimented or
crowded. My daughters went to a very large preschool where they got
routinely hassled by other kids, and no one appeared to notice, even
when one of my daughters stopped talking to any of the other children
(I mean, the teachers did notice that, but they couldn't figure out
why). Plus it was the kind of place where the art projects all look
just the same and the kids come home with worksheets all colored the
same way. I *much* preferred my son's little community-center
preschool, and it was cheaper, too.

fear would actually be that with particular personalities of child, being
ahead at the start of kindergarten would actually lead to bordom and
disruptive behaviour. That said, you can't prevent a child from learning, I
wouldn't be surprised if my DS could read by the time he gets to
kindergarten, or print some of his letters, because he consistently asks to
write, if you give him an activity book, even one not designed for early
writing, he seeks out the letters and goes over the lines, but I feel there
is a difference between encouraging that kind of natural curiousity to
paying someone to have your kid ahead at the start of kindergarten, possibly
to the detriment of other skills they could have been learning instead of
the "academic" ones. If in was shown to be beneficial in the long term, then
I'd be all for it, but by public education starting earlier, so all children
could benefit, but as I said, I'm pretty sure that it hasn't been shown to
make a difference.

Also as someone mentioned, it was great place for doing alot of messy
arts n crafts that you wouldnt want to tryout at home with your
preschooler. :-) It was a really creative/artistic with music and lots
of fun - well worth the price!
Why not ask if you can sit on on a typical day (I dont think they would
mind) to check out their routines and see if its what you are looking
for?

Ericka Kammerer...

This is something you absolutely should do in
evaluating preschools. There's no substitute for seeing
what they actually do.
Also, if you want one take on what makes a high
quality preschool, there's a ton of information on the
their short guide to what to look for here:
for Families).

Best wishes,
Ericka

I'm really happy with the daycare (1 day/week), it's a home-based one
and I remember having a huge preschool with *much* more space/activity
possibilities/etc. when I was a kid.

Anyways, this is rambly -- but I'd like to get feedback on what people
think of the merits of preschool. I don't want to be sucked into the
Silicon Valley mentality of putting your kid in every possible activity
and scouting out Educational Opportunities for toddlers in the hopes of
getting them into Stanford. ;) But if there's something more to it
than that, I'd like to hear about it. Thanks!!

Welches...

To me the advantage of pre-school is entirely social. Both mine went at
about 2 yrs 10 months as the earliest they could start. #1 needed the social
interaction so she could learn how to react to peers. #2 needs social
contact because she thrives on it. #1 only went 2 mornings for the first
year, then 4 mornings the second year before full time (compulsory) school.
#2 (now 3yo 2 months) I am upping to 3 mornings after Christmas. Partially
because I could do with more break (being pregnant) and partially because
she loves it and really needs the extra stimulation.
Accademically, yes, they do stuff. Learn letters and count and write their
name etc. But for #1 she learnt very little that she hadn't learnt already
at home. The number of times they met me with great excitement "Look #1's
done ***" and my initial reaction was "so, she's been doing that for a year"
(although I feigned excitement each time dutifully)
The only things I can think of that she learnt entirely through them was #1
learnt to write all the letters by watching the older ones and copying her
name. She surprised me the first time she did this, as she'd only been going
a couple of months and I didn't know they'd been doing it with her, but if
she'd been at home I suspect she would have been doing it within 6 months
anyway and there's not much advantage to writing at 3yo rather than 3.5yo.
Both of them learnt to operate a mouse at preschool, again I suspect they'd
have learnt at home in a reasonable timescale.
#2 does seem to preform better for them than for me. When I spoke to them
before Christmas there were a few things they said she could do which I
didn't know. Partually is she's a bit lazy for me and will almost always say
"I don't know" unless it's to do with numbers which she loves. She is
reading reasonably fluently when she wants to but her first reaction if she
sees a word she knows is to ask me what it says rather than reading it
herself. So pre-school may help her accademically. However I suspect the
amount of stuff they aim to do in 2 years will be less in total than what
she would learn naturally at home. But we'll wait and see on that. I'm not
really bothered about the accademic side myself; it doesn't seem to make any
difference to how good the children are by the end of reception year.
Socially it made a lot of difference to #1.
Debbie

Em
mama to Micah, 11/14/04

Jeanne...

We put DS into preschool this past fall at 3. He's going to the
Montessori school his big sister attends (the school goes up to 8th
grade). He showed tremendous interest in being with other children this
past summer. I'm not sure we could have provided the same environment at
home/neighborhood as the school so we decided this was the way to go for
us.

I have to say that there is pressure (at least here in the DC metro
area) and it does start in preschool (!) to get your child as "ahead" as
possible - reading BEFORE kindergarten, algebra by 8th grade (preferably
7th) but keep in mind - what's the point? So the kid can go to Stanford
(Harvard) before s/he can drive? Sometimes it's hard to not be seduced
by this mindset. Resist it as much as you can!

Ericka Kammerer...

I agree that there is this pressure in some areas
(we're in NoVA, so I hear you about the pressure here), but
I don't think that the mere act of putting a child in
preschool is being pushy. That's why you have to select a

Jeanne...

I agree - I didn't mean putting a child into preschool is the equivalent
to "pushing". As I said, we put our kids into preschool and it was
mostly a social decision. There is quite a bit of "academic" material,
mainly because it's a Montessori school but I expect the first year is
just acclimating to the environment and doing "Practical Life" (e.g.,
polishing shoes, folding washcloths) and "Sensorial" (e.g., pink tower,
brown rods, pouring water) materials.

preschool carefully. Especially in areas like this, there
are preschools that are very pushy academically. It's very
easy to pick these out, and they will often be the popular
(and expensive) programs. However, you can usually *also*
find programs that aren't that way and are delightful to
work with.
Speaking from experience, you should also pay
attention to (and ask about) the parental involvement.
We have some preschools around here where the moms are
all "ladies who lunch." Being a part of those preschools
is a never-ending round of fundraisers and obligations,
and the mom clique is scary. Personally, I find that
uncomfortable--and it's even worse if you adapt, because
then you *become* one of those pushy parents!
It's funny you mention the algebra by 7th grade
thing. I have a 6th grader who is on track for that.

Anne Rogers...

I didn't twig when I read the original post, but now you say it, I worked
out when I was taught algebra (in school, as you know maths is my thing and
I'd self taught it earlier) and it would have been the equivalent of 6th
grade, not 100% of students would have done that, but 25-50% I'd guess and
the very latest by all but the very weakest would be 8th grade. It may be a
difference in learning style, such that the school based introduction of
algebra was very slow, in the UK maths is not divided until post 16, so I've
always been a little uncomfortable with designating the branches of maths at
quite a young age and have wondered if it actually means delaying teaching
the basics in one subject because you don't do it until next year, but going
beyond what many can cope with because you don't take it next year in
another area.

Ericka Kammerer...

I don't think we're talking about the same thing.
DS has been doing pre-algebra stuff (variables, solving
equations, etc.) for some time. The "Algebra I" curriculum
goes on to polynomial functions, quadratic functions,
exponential functions, graphing, and also usually includes
some coverage of logic, probability and statistics.

For some kind of basis for comparison, here are the
"tracks" in our system:

"Average" is:
7th grade - Math 7
8th grade - Math 8
9th grade - Algebra I
10th grade - Geometry
11th grade - Algebra II
12th grade - Trig/Math analysis

(For those who are particularly challenged, they can do four
years of high school math with a two-year algebra I sequence
and a two-year geometry sequence, but they only end up with a
"standard" diploma.)

More advanced, but common is:
7th grade - Math 7
8th grade - Algebra I Honors
9th grade - Geometry Honors
10th grade - Algebra II Honors
11th grade - Trig/Math analysis
12th grade - AP Calculus AB

Anne Rogers...

just a quickie, what does it mean for a course to be "honors"

Ericka Kammerer...

Basically, it means it's a more difficult course.
They cover more material faster and in more depth.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Advanced (probably around 25 percent or fewer):
7th grade - Math 7 Honors
8th grade - Algebra I Honors
9th grade - Geometry Honors
10th grade - Algebra II Honors
11th grade - Precalculus Honors
12th grade - AP Calculus BC

Very advanced (less than 10 percent):
7th grade - Algebra I Honors
8th grade - Geometry Honors
9th grade - Algebra II Honors
10th grade - Precalculus Honors
11th grade - AP Calculus BC
12th grade - Multi-Variable Calculus & Matrix Algebra

There are also some other math options available, like
AP Statistics or Discrete Mathematics.

At least here, there isn't any danger of delaying topics.
Goodness knows they start flogging pre-algebra skills in
(IIRC) second grade, if not earlier. I'm amazed students
don't rebel from encountering the same information in
itty bitty increments year after year after year.

Anne Rogers...

I'm going to save that for reference, you do clear up a slight concern I
had, I hadn't realised algebra really meant "Algebra". There are distinct
features that I do like of the US system, that doing courses at different
times seems fully accepted and that being advanced or bright doesn't have to
be in every class. I like the lower level of flexibility in choosing courses
(in the UK in the main, you choose the subject for either 1 or 2yrs, but you
don't choose within it), it might take me a bit of time to get my head
around the breadth of courses required, as that is so unfamiliar, but it is
something the UK is making steps at moving away from. I'll have to keep an
eye on things though, so that a change to the UK education system is not too
hard, I think the hardest time for the switch would be if we end up being
here long term, but they choose to go to British Universities as unless the
breadth increases in the UK there would be a huge jump in level of material.

Best wishes,
Ericka

I've always been laid back about those sorts of things,
figuring I didn't need to be the pushy parent and that
he'd get there if he was meant to. Now, I'm being
gently scolded by his math teacher that he is more
than capable of doing this and that perhaps I should
be having higher expectations of him. Some days you
just can't win! ;-) And, I suppose I have to confess
that she's probably right. Anyway, he's where he is
because he has the ability and he's worked for it, and
he surely didn't need a high pressure preschool (or mom)
to get there! ;-) Now, if we could just up his

Jeanne...

My sister struggled with the algebra by 7th grade decision for her
daughter (she's also in FFX County). In the end, it was a social
decision - my niece's friends were in 7th grade algebra so she opted for
it as well. My niece did well in the class (A's and B's) but she had a
rather weak foundation for higher math and this didn't show until she
was taking pre-calculus or calculus in high school. She could have
taken the one-lower level math and benefited from the class.

I think you're probably doing the right thing - not push and let your
son be where he feels most comfortable.

Now, if we could just up his

organizational skills, he'd be set....

Jeanne...

Something is always sacrificed :)

Best wishes,
Ericka