Advice? and introducing myself....

Hi everyone! I have a question that I'd like the opinion of this
group on. I'm a long time lurker and have posted a time or 2.
I've been able to answer a lot of my own questions just by lurking.

hemulen27...

Hi - me too!

Ok, my DS is 11.5 mos (yikes! Almost a year already!!). He is our 1st,
and, as I'm sure you all understand, I can't even put into words
how I feel about him. :)
I recently went to a "reunion" of sorts with the people who were in
my child birthing class. By the time I left I was in tears.
I could not believe how competitive and catty (for lack of better word)
a lot of these other moms were!

hemulen27...

[snip]

bob and shel...

SNIP

Irrational Number...

Are you sure people were really being "catty"? When
a disparate group of people get together, and really,
the only thing you have in common with them is that
you all had a child at approximately the same time,
this is really the only topic you all have in common.
It's normal to compare, if only to gather data.

Just me :)...

Yeah, I'm pretty sure. It was less in the spirit of gathering data
and seing where *most* kids are and more like people comparing better
cars or bigger houses. Like " Oh, you mean your Lexus does not have
leather seats"? Then it's *really* not anywhere as nice as mine" Not
the greatest analogy, but the first that came to mind.

personally, since Pillbug has recently being

For me, personally, since Pillbug has recently being
diagnosed autistic, and, deep down, I knew since birth,
all the milestones don't matter.

Just me :)...

I've not put too much stock in the milestones myself, it's likely part
of the reason the whole thing bothered me so. It was the first time
I've seen people get all competitive about it. With any luck, the
last.

P.S.- Anita, I sometimes call DS Pillbug because of the way he curls
himself up on his side to sleep :)

I believe each child is different; they don't all do things at the
same age. My parenting philosophy in that regard has been that DS (and
every other child) will move along at his own pace and we don't make
big deals out of trying to "force" milestones like sitting, walking
etc unless the pedi believes there is a problem.
Anyway, all the babies were about the same age. DS is walking. He was
quite happy to see all the other babies in the room and was toddling
over to check them out. I was happy until I heard some plain NASTY
comments from other mothers. Not just about my son (oh- he can walk
but not self feed, what is wrong with her, or look he has no hair.) but
about other children as well. (oh, isn't she fat/short/messy/blah
blah blah). It was enough to make me feel nauseous. Then the
competition began with moms saying things like "Oh Janey sat up at
____(insert incredibly early age there)"
This was my first run in with people like this and it was a whole room
full! I met 2 other moms there who were disturbed deeply like me and
we left together. I was in shock that anyone would insult little
babies in order to one up each other. All the kids there were

Chookie...

LOL, welcome to the upwardly-mobile parent. You can't do anything about them
except avoid them, and not be one. Imagine what those women would be like to
work with!

You are right -- all babies are beautiful (well, almost all!), and there are
things to celebrate in the lives of each one. I was lucky in that I had a
really supportive mothers' group. Whenever someone said, "My baby's doing X;
is anyone else's?", someone else was bound to say "Yes! So it must be
normal!" There are plenty of normal parents out there too.

beautiful, as all babies are and I was really hurt.
Anyone here run into this? How do you handle it? This really is not
common, is it?

Anonymama...

I imagine that thinking these things is common -- the difference is that
most of us keep our mouths shut until we get home and then gossip with
our spouses, confirming how wonderful our own children are. That was a
really rude group of people you were with.

hemulen27...

I think everyone compares themselves and their kids to others to a
certain extent but I haven't personally come across such blatant and
open competitiveness, although I've heard of it happening to others.
The closest thing I've probably experienced is when DD was really young
and I had people asking me all the time if she was sleeping through the
night and assuring me that *their* child had done it at ten days old,
etc, etc. You should be aware that people lie about stuff like this :)

Welches...

I'm not sure it's really lieing. I think it's more misremembering. I've had
conversations with people who have said what a brilliant
sleeper/eater/whatever their now 4yo always was, and someone else buts in
and says "when they were 1yo you were in depair that they'd ever sleep more
than 3 hours at a time/eat something that wasn't yoghurt/etc." They usually
then react surprised and say "was I really? I'd forgotten that..."
My mil children have got better at everything over the lat 5 years since #1
was born too!

I noticed when #1 was little that particularly older people tend to ask "are
they good?" meaning do they sleep well, and eat well. For #1 the answer was
yes for both. #2 no.

I don't really know why but it obviously makes them feel better! I
think it may be because everyone is insecure about how well they are
doing as parents and some people feel the need to constantly compare to
reassure themselves: e.g., "Junior may not be walking yet but at least
he can feed himself/talk/grow more hair than *that* kid".

The best thing to do is to avoid people like this as they clearly
aren't fun to be around. While it's happening, I would simply ignore it
as much as possible and, if someone makes such a comment directly to
you, defuse it by saying "well, all children are beautiful, aren't
they?" or "wouldn't it be boring if we were all the same?". There isn't
really anything else you can say - it's not necessarily your place to
tell other people that their behaviour is inappropriate but neither do
you have to condone it or join in.

Welches...

I tend to work on compliments. Usually you can find something to compliment
in every child. if someone said "doesn't that child look ugly with no hair"
my reaction would be "yes, but he's got a lovely smile" or similar. My rule
is not to say anything negative about someones' child unless they're asking
for help with it.
I tend to react on the "all come out in the wash" with development
differences. I have a couple of reactions that I've used. One is on walking.
I nannied 2 children of similar age. One walked at about 10 months. One
walked at 18 months. 1 week after the 18 month walked he could run, jump
etc. and hardly ever crawled again. Seeing them playing together you
couldn't have known one was walking for 1 week, the other for 8 months, as
they were equally stable, fast etc. Only the later walker could jump and the
other couldn't yet.
Talking: #1 was a good talker. At her 2 year check she was saying 400 words
clearly. She talked in sentences most of the time by 20 months. Now (age 5)
you wouldn't pick her clarity or vocabulary as different from her friend of
similar age who had speech therapy and only said 3 words at age 2, and
wasn't really in sentences at 3.

Nan...

Unfortunately, it can be. But as you discovered, there are others
that feel as you do.

PattyMomVA...

From what you wrote about the group, it may be that the moms didn't really
have anything else to talk about. You were in childbirth classes together
and then, a year later, you get together with your babies. What else would
you have to talk about? I find that these sorts of competitive observations
come up much less often with people who are friends. I don't suppose you
would have counted these people among your friends before the reunion? It
really depends on what the parents want to get out of the relationship.

Don't let their comments change your parenting unless you feel like it,
-Patty, mom of 1+2

Jeanne...

It's NOT uncommon in my area (where babies talk - in full sentences - by
the age of 9 months, can multiply and divide by 2 years old, and of
course are reading "Harry Potter" at 5 years old) where the adults were
competitive in school, are/were competitive at work and now have
transferred this to their parenting. When DD was a baby/toddler I got a
LOT of condescending nods and comments ("you know she's a first child
because ...", "Just you wait until she's... , you'll see...") Ugh.
They didn't know my daughter and they didn't have *this* daughter.
Oddly enough, it cut both ways - I was either expecting too much or I
was too laid back depending on who I was talking to.

It really depends on who you decide to hang out with. I would stick with
the two moms you found.

What I found was that there are not only different parenting styles but
also different parenting goals. Everyone has different ideas of what a
good or happy childhood/parenthood is. What worked for me (but it's
hard) is to find parents whose styles are compatible with mine.

It made me question my own parenting style somewhat. So far DS is

Jeanne...

Never question yourself if your child is healthy, thriving and happy.
I've made mistakes with DD and made corrections but I identified these
through DD's behavior and growth rather than what other parents told me.

doing just great as far as we are concerned, and our pedi agrees. But
maybe, although we encourage him in trying and mastering things that he
is capable and showing interest in doing (like the self feeding, which
is lagging a bit), we are too laid back? Should we be more forceful in

Jeanne...

One mistake I made was to think a parent had to be more "pro-active" in
a child's development. THe child has his/her own pace. Forcing a child
out of his/her pace can be more harmful than being "too laid back".

Keep doing what you feel is best for your child and enjoy the ride.

this stuff? I don't feel as though that is the right approach for

Anonymama...

Nah. I bet you're doing fine. Just avoid those people in the future.

DS, but this whole experience this weekend really made a mess of me.

toto...

Sounds to me like your parenting style is fine. Encourage but don't
push. I would let him try things certainly, but not worry too much
about his mastery of them.

Self-feeding is finger foods at this age so I would give him plenty of
opportunities to try it, but not worry too much if you are still
feeding him as well.

Welches...

I wouldn't worry about self feeding at 10 months! If you give him finger
food he'll eat it if he wants it-try him with a chocolate finger, then
you'll see how well he can feed himself! If you're worrying about spoon
feeding, then depends on the child. #1 was more interested in getting the
food in, and I remember thinking at about age 2 that she would never feed
herself with a spoon. #2 otoh, refused solids entirely until about 8 months.
But once she decided she would try and eat solids she fed herself. That's
personality not ability there!
Avoid the group if it makes you feel uncomfortable. There are plenty of
other groups around and I'm sure you'll find one where you're happy.
Debbie

hemulen27...

I don't really see why you should be feeling like this. You don't like

Rosalie B....

I take exception to this particular remark. Lots of times we don't
know why we feel the way we do.

hemulen27...

Taking exception seems a little OTT, as my comment wasn't meant
maliciously or directed at you. Perhaps I should have been a bit
clearer, however, as I realise it could sound like I'm telling the OP
how to feel or what to think. What I meant was that, as the OP was
saying that she found the behaviour unpleasant, I couldn't understand
why she was wondering if she ought to emulate it. I was simply trying
to say that I wasn't following her logic. Apologies to the OP if that
was not apparent.

Maybe what you meant was more along the lines of - Have confidence in
yourself. Don't question your methods just because people whom you
don't respect are making snide comments.

hemulen27...

Which is what I pretty much said later on in my post.

these people or their behaviour, right? They made you feel
uncomfortable and uneasy, so why would you want to change your
parenting style to theirs? You were obviously happy enough with the way
things were going before this so have the courage of your convictions,
keep doing things the way you think they ought to be done and simply
avoid the mean-spirited snipers and don't let them bring you down!

Just me :)...

Thanks. I'm not sure why I feel this way either.
To be honest I have little stickers on DS's baby calendar for the
first time he slept through the night, sat, rolled over and all but off
the top of my head I don't remember the exact times. It just never
occurred to me that anyone would really use any of those things against
another person or to puff themselves up.
I happen to know several children with developmental issues that are
not readily visible, so maybe it doubly rankled me to think they may
have been insulting a child in that room who has an issue they do not
know about.
I'm a generally happy person, and sometimes a bit too sensitive when
it comes to people being mean. I take too many things to heart
sometimes.

Rosalie B....

My sister is like this. I probably would have said something like -
isn't it interesting how different our babies are. Or if I was REALLY
angry (and I would tend to get angry in a situation like that), I
might make cutting and sarcastic remarks back, but that's not very
helpful, and it would make me no better than they were. But I would
be tempted.

Just me :)...

I was tempted, Rosalie. On some level I'm not proud of I wanted to
just tell 'um off :)
If someone insults me well, I'm not happy about it but generally I
can live with it. It may upset me for a bit if it was a very mean
remark but I'll be all right. But someone insults or is just snarky
about a baby (not just my DS, but others as well) I get a little more
upset. These are all kids under a year old. Sheesh, the more I think
about it the more I'm glad I won't be seeing them ever again.
Though I got a call from one of the moms who walked out with me
earlier. We are going to get together this weekend with our kids and
let them (and us) just enjoy without being worried about other people.
I guess it has an upside, I made a new friend. And I hope DS will too.

As long as DS is happy and healthy that is the important thing, I need
to remember that!

Rosalie B....

grandma Rosalie

Anyway, thanks for letting me drone on, and I hope I made at least a
bit of sense here.

TIA for any words of wisdom ;)

Nan...

I always just roll my eyes at the competitiveness. I've raised one
who is 22 now, and I've learned that in the Big Picture, it matters
very little when they walked or talked or got hair, unless there are
developmental issues. Looking at my ds, nobody will ever guess he
didn't potty train until he was 3, but I sure got lectured about it
when he was young ;-)

You'll always meet types like you describe, but you'll find others
that you can get along with, too.

Welcome to misc.kids :-)

Just me :)...

Thanks Nan! I look forward to being here!

Al
Mommy to DS 4/15/05

bob and shel...

Hi Al,

(I'm also coming out of lurk mode)

Heh, all I can say is... get used to it. Just about everyone wants to
think their child is "above average" for lack of a better term. In my
experience, this never ends (my kids are 19 and 17). Each child has
their own strengths and weaknesses. My daughter was FAT as an infant.
When she was 1yo and started walking she weighed 24 pounds. At 2 she
was slim, much taller, and weighed the same 24 pounds. : ) When people
talked about her "rolls" (we called her Michelin baby), I joined in, cuz
I knew it was true (I must have had an excess of breast mild or
something, who knows). She had different strengths... she talked
before some of my good friends' kids, and had excellent manual
dexterity. And she could definitely self feed. : )

When they hit grade school, parents will be talking about how smart
their kids are cuz they can multiply in 2nd grade (or whatever) or did
well on some standardized tests, or got "player of the year" in t-ball.
Whatever. Junior High it will be because they made first string on
football, the cheering squad or got asked to be on the math olympics
team. High school it will be ACT scores, All Conference champ in some
sport, or they got on prom court. Be happy for those kids'
accomplishments, and also be proud of what your son does well, and have
a sense of humor about what he doesn't excel in, just like you probably
have a sense of humor about what you don't excel in.

So, my advice is, again, to get used to it. You don't need to join in
if you feel people are actually being mean, rather than making
observations, but be honest with yourself and your child's strengths and
weaknesses. My daughter was a gymnast.... pretty good, but not awesome.
But she's a really hard worker, pretty bright, and has done well in
school. One of my best friend's daughter is also a gymnast, but an
awesome gymnast.... but she's not quite as bright as my daughter. My
son is pretty good at soccer, but ummm, doesn't exactly push himself
academically. : ) Yes, that used to be a huge source of discontent on
my end, but now I've learned to accept it is part of who he is, and
laugh about it with my friends. When we are together and discussing our
kids, we don't feel insulted, or feel one parent is "bragging" (for lack
of a better term) about their child, cuz we know all our kids have their
own special gifts. And we have a sense of humor about their (and my)
short-comings. And, as a mom, I LOVE hearing about other kids'
shortcomings and strengths, especially kids older than mine, as then
when it happens in MY house, I know "this to shall pass". One of my
best friends... (both parents with Master degrees and education is very
important to them), has a son who was just like mine.... didn't turn in
homework, didn't put much effort into academics at all, etc, but now he
is on the honor roll in college. It is a HUGE help to me to have
someone else I know and respect to have gone through the same thing with
their son : )

I'm trying to remember waaayyyy back then when my kids were that age. I
also felt insulted having to deal with all the one-upmanship with my
first child and a group of other moms. But as they age, you will
develop a sense of humor about your children's weaknesses (for lack of a
better term) and celebrate their strengths, just as other parents enjoy
celebrating their children's strengths. I have a good friend whose son
has some problems with ADD, and I am astounded with her awesome sense of
humor about many of his antics. He is now in college, and when we get
together we can spend the morning chatting about kids and laugh
hysterically about what her and my kids are doing.

So, if you really felt insulted by those people, don't go back to the
group. Or, use it as a learning experience. It's good to see where
other kids are developmentally. It might be a good thing to see.... and
maybe you'd think about pushing your son slightly to learn to self feed
(or whatever a lot of the other kids are doing), and others will think
"gee maybe I should encourage my child to try to walk rather than
picking them up every time" after seeing your son walk (these are just
examples, I'm not suggesting we shouldn't pick our kids up). But
realize most parents will all brag about their kids, and in general I
don't think it is meant in a mean spirited way. It's just they're
proud of their kids, and you should be proud of your son, too.

Shel (back to lurking mode)

Stephanie...

IMO you're fine. The approach I think is best is *offer* attainable,
challenging things to master. And let him decide if he is interested.