first day of kindergarten and homework!

DS finished the first day of kindergarten yesterday. For his homework, he
had to write his name, color a house, write his address, draw a picture of
someone he wants to talk on the phone with, write his phone number. It took

toypup...

Nah, this community is far from small and isolated. I think people move too
often here. Wish they'd stick around more.

about half an hour and he was exhausted. Afterward, we were supposed to
read, but I wasn't going there.

Chris...

I would wait to see if this is really the every night norm before
getting too upset. It sounds like the kind of project where the teacher
is making a bulletin board or display of everyone in the class or
working on students learning their address and phone number in case
they get lost, etc. Also, it doesn't sound like the homework was meant
to be a chore, but to incorporate important informmation. It included
easy and hard elements (color, draw, write) and some skills. Wait a
few weeks and see what the normal pattern of work will be.

I was expecting homework, I thought maybe write one letter of the alphabet,
but this is ridiculous. I told DH and he agreed, saying there many kids
coming into kindergarten not even reading much less writing addresses. We

Barbara...

I'm not sure they expected him to know it. I thought they were making
a kindergarten version of a face book to be distributed to the class,
which was why they needed name, address, telephone number, drawing of
home, etc. They wanted it done at home so parents could help with the
details the child didn't know.

IMHO, I'd take a wait and see approach. See how your son likes the
school, including the homework, and how well he adjusts. See how YOU
like it. If its not a good fit, you can think about moving him to the

PattyMomVA...

This is so sad. I've been following along the thread and wondering about
the poor kindergarten children expected to do all this homework every night.
If the expectations at this school are so developmentally inappropriate at
this age, can you be sure the school will get it right at any other age?
Imagine making a kindergartner write every night!

I remember when DS was in K last year, they showed us how children begin
writing with squiggles that barely approximate written characters. It was
explained that some children were at that stage, some others were writing a
few letters, some others could write most or all of the alphabet. All
ability levels were considered normal, with the expectation that they would
all be writing by the end of the year.

Homework in K was a monthly calendar with an activity typed in each weekday.
Something like, count all the windows in your house or practice writing the
lowercase b. It was at the parents' discretion to do these activities;
nothing was ever turned in. I'm feeling very fortunate to be in such a
great school district where they don't pour on the HW inappropriately.
(BTW, DD is going into 3rd grade, and I've been happy with the amount of HW
she's had as well.)

Ericka Kammerer...

Are we in the same or different district? I've
found the HW here very inconsistent. The official district
policy is 10 minutes/grade level/night, M-Th, which I think
is fine. From what I hear from others, though, some schools
tend toward more homework, and within schools there's a lot
of variation from teacher to teacher or grade to grade
(depending on how things are organized). We've had good and bad
homework situations (kindy was fine with both, 1st was

PattyMomVA...

We're in the next district over. I didn't know if there was an official
homework policy, so I just looked it up: As a general rule, primary children
should be required to spend no more than 30 minutes daily doing homework;
children in grades 4 and 5 should spend no more than 1 hour.

Ericka Kammerer...

Probably an easier policy to administer, I imagine ;-)
It's hard to estimate homework time down to 10 minute increments!

For us, the K homework last year was far below 30 minutes a day. I imagine
our district also has inconsistent expectations from teacher to teacher, but
we've been fortunate so far, except.... I remember that when SD was in 5th
grade here, her teacher was fresh out of school and gave a huge amount of
homework. When we went in to talk to her about it, she told us that the
other parents hadn't mentioned anything. As far as she was concerned, that
was a good enough answer. Fortunately, SD was a good student and motivated
herself to complete the homework. I don't know how far we would have pushed
it if it had been more of a problem for SD.

Ericka Kammerer...

Yeah, it's only a problem when it's a problem...
but then it's a big one!

At least we aren't in a school that expects parents to sign a homework
policy for amounts such as in the OP! I still think it's sad that
overzealous teachers and administrators (and parents!) think that massive
amounts of homework will improve education.

Ericka Kammerer...

Yep. I don't think anyone means for things to work out
the way they do, but I think it's short-sighted.

By the by, I'm Dishing 9/20 at 8:00pm (just got back
this evening, too), in case that's a good time for you.

Best wishes,
Ericka

-Patty, mom of 1+2

okay with one and bad with another, 2nd grade was okay
with one and great with another, 3rd grade was rough for
both, 4th grade was bad for one, and 5th grade was pretty
good for one. I'm on pins and needles to see what this
year will be like (4th and 6th grade, but DS2 will probably
have a different teacher than DS1's 4th grade teacher).

Best wishes,
Ericka

(Strangely, I don't ever see toypup's e-mail, so I'm responding to someone
else's quoted reply.)

-Patty, mom of 1+2

local school instead. At least you'll know more about what both of you
want in a school, and what you don't want, at that time.

Chookie...

I can just see them trying to pull this in my area -- DS1's school is about
90% kids of non-English-speaking background (NESB), including a small
proportion who start with no English at all. AFAIK DS1 was the only child who
started the year already reading, and he wasn't writing.

FTR, K don't have homework at all in Term 1, it's reading in Term 2, and
pretty occasional in Term 3 apart from the reading! (He had a work sheet for
last week.) I would be asking them what the heck they think they are doing,
and how do they deal with NESB children.

happen to have a very long address, so it wasn't easy. Anyway, just
venting. Today, there is more homework, but I tried to get some of it out
of the way this morning before school so he is not overwhelmed after school.

Scott...

Kindergarten should not give kids too much homework. You could take
with the teacher of your son.

Sincerely, Scott

Nan...

That's a lot of homework. After reading some threads here, I was
expecting terrible amounts of homework, but E only had one assignment
a week for Kindergarten.

Tai...

My five year old who has been in kindergarten since the beginning of
February so is almost 3/4 of the way through the school year has much less
homework than that. Every afternoon he brings home two repetitive reading
books suitable for his level of reading (by our design he was pre-reading
and writing apart from his name at the beginning of the year). He also has
had short lists from the 100 most common words to read and memorise but
that's been a very gradual and gentle process and I don't think they've got
through fifty of them yet. In the last month the whole grade has had an
exercise where they've all learnt how to recite their address and telephone
numbers but there's been no requirement to do more than read them. At this
point they are all writing simple sentences while those who came with some
writing skills already write a little more. Spelling is haphazard and based
on recognising some of a word's letters by their sound.

Occasionally there is some extra homework task like collecting autumn leaves
or drawing a fire escape plan for our house (with parental help) but it's
not onerous and there're usually several days to complete the task. My
experience with three children is that for the first half year the wee new
entrants are very tired by the time they get home from school and the last
thing we, as parents, have wanted is to do anything that makes schoolwork a
less than happy and fun experience.

I would request a meeting with the teacher (after arming myself with lots of
the anti-homework for lower grades research) and prepare to do battle.
Either that or just practice a bit of civil disobedience on behalf of my
child's mental and physical health. (This one gets a lot easier with
subsequent children, btw. ;) )

bizby40...

My kids didn't have homework in kindergarten until after winter break.
And even then, what you describe sounds like a week's worth, not a
day's worth.

StephanieTheGoofy...

Wow. I hope that is not going on in my son's kindergarten coming up. This
would be Not Ok with me.

xkatx...

Wow... After reading this and all the replies so far, I am actually
amazed...
DS was in kindergarden last year and 'homework' was reading together - they
sent home log sheets that the parents signed for every book read - or about
10-20 minutes worth of reading.
I didn't really consider this to be homework, as this was, and still is, a
nightly event at bed time here.
I know some children start kindergarden reading and/or printing, and I also
know that some children don't do either when they walk into kindergarden.
DS was one that would point out simple words he knew and he recognized his
name but could not spell it on his own. It was the first day of school that
he came home with some work - can't remember exactly, but probably was a
picture or something - that HE had written his name on, obviously with some
help.
If there was set homework on the first day of kindergarden, or even well
into the year, I would not be alright with this. In kindergarden, as an
early starter even, DS learned to spell and write his name, first and last
(and he has a long last name, but since he just has *my* last name, not
hyphenated with DH's last name like DD's is and mine is now - that's 9
letters HIS last name is compared to 15, what mine and DD's name is) He
knew the alphabet before going into kindergarden, but ended the year with
being able to write it all out, upper and lower case, learned his name in
Ukrainian, could count to I have no idea what, as I normally ask to be
spared come aorund 200 or so ;) lol and can count to 20 in Ukrainian... He
learned his phone number, and that's about it... Other than basic, beginner
math (color 2 apples red, 2 apples green and you have a total of 4 apples or
whatever it may be) Days of the week, months of the year, whatever... Just
the basics, I guess.
I was satisfied with what he learned in a year, and it required no
'homework'

Barbara...

ROFLMAO. Seriously. There are tears running down my cheeks. My
colleagues wonder what's going on, and my mascara is running.

I obviously cannot speak for the system in place in every school
district in the US, let alone the world, but the thought that any
school district in the US would WANT your child to receive services in
its schools is laughable. Schools in general fight tooth and nail
against providing services because it costs them money. Funding in my
district is handled particularly poorly. Each school has a budget ...
period. Its got to find a way to pay for special services while still
paying teachers, buying books, and providing specials. Providing
services to Little Suzy -- who needs them badly -- may well mean that
the fourth grade has to use that outdated and falling apart science
textbook yet another year.

We enrolled One in kindergarten in the local public school before
deciding to send him to private school. All we had to do was give the
public school a call; no problem. One year later, we had him tested,
and he qualfied for SLT and OT. These are *related* services, meaning
that he is in a general ed classroom; given the size of our major city
school district, he's clearly only one of thousands, if not tens of
thousands, of kids receiving such services. But the public school
called in a panic -- please, please, PLEASE give us something in
writing indicating that he's not in school here. They were quite
afraid of the budget implications of having the cost of services come
out of their budget.

As to *giving kids a label ...* Oy. One of the worst days of my life
was the day I signed One's IEP. Now he was labeled. Different. One
of *those* kids. But I've done a full 180 on that. What's wrong with
the label? Its who he is. The kid has fine motor skill problems, and
has auditory processing issues. So what? Maybe we need to educate
people so that they understand that kids with those labels are really
no different from the rest of us.

Back to the original issue of homework ... we've never had the parade
of horribles that others discuss. One's homework has, in the past,
taken longer than the teachers anticipate because of his processing
differences. But even with going to school from 8:20 until 3:15, and
sometimes having an hour or more of homework, he's still able to
participate in activities (baseball, basketball, I think we're signing
him up for ice skating in the fall, gym night, chess club, we may do
scouts if they form a pack in our area, trying to convince him to try a
musical instrument), read, have free time, and try to sneak in more
time on the TV or video games than I'd like. Is homework useful? I'd

Ericka Kammerer...

Good heavens, what time does he go to bed? Or are all
of the activities in your back yard? We've got 4.5 hours between
the time the kids get home from school and bedtime. Take a half

Rosalie B....

When my kids were in school and doing various activities, we scheduled
it differently. They went to the activity right after school. In
some cases the activities were AT school, and in at least one case

Ericka Kammerer...

I think the increasing homework loads are part and
parcel of the changes in the school system that are likely
working to boys' disadvantage.

Ericka Kammerer...

Or they just perceive themselves as less able to
handle those courses/less smart because the earlier heavy homework
loads took a heavier toll on them.

toypup...

Today' homework is to draw a picture of what he wants for his birthday,
write his birthday, write how old he'll be, draw a picture of his family,
write the names of the people in his family, draw a picture of his favorite
food, write the name of that food. Monday's and today's homework is going
into a book.

Caledonia...

It sounds, to me, like there was some awareness of the homework
requirements going in (at least, for how it ramps up to third grade) on
your part, and that maybe you're feeling that this isn't quite right
for you, but is the right thing for DS, SIL, and MIL. Is that correct?

toypup...

Yes, they were pushing for it, because the school is a magnet school,
because SIL teaches in one that is one of the best schools in the country
(even compared to elite private schools), because it would be difficult to
get back in if we turn it down. They have a very structured program, which
I think matches DS's personality and is a huge positive. IL's wanted us to
try it and we could opt out. If we went with the local school and found the
homework load comparable but structure lacking, we could not easily get back
in. From asking other parents, local schools also have a high homework
load.

[IMO, it sounds really extreme and not aligned with my expectations of
what school should do --although it does sound like it will effectively
'teach' a child that they have to do a lot of homework every night in
order to stay in this magnet school. If staying in this school is your
end goal, I feel that projecting *anything* other than a positive "such
as it is, it is" approach isn't going to help you attain it.]

Best wishes,
Ericka

(4-H) the leader's house was on their bus route, and so they rode the
bus to the leaders house, and then I picked them up later.

Ericka Kammerer...

We've done that in the past. For us, that just
leads to having to do homework after dinner, by which time
my kids take twice as long to do the homework because they're
tired.

So after school they did the following when we were in RI
Monday - gymnastics - at school
Tuesday - music lesson and then swim team and then after a fast food
dinner ice skating. They did homework while their sibling was having
a lesson.
Wednesday - swim team (an hour and a half)
Thursday - 4H
Friday - swim team
Saturday was Girl Scouts and ice skating
Sunday was church and ice skating (3 or 4 hours)

It took half a hour to drive to the locations that were not right
nearby because we used an interstate highway which was not at all
congested (unlike I-495)

When we moved to MD, we gave up the gymnastics, ballet, Girl Scouts,
and ice skating, but we still had piano, and , swim team (4 days a
week now). When dd#1 got to HS, she gave up piano because she said she
had no time to practice - she was the only one still taking piano. I
started coaching swimming 5 days a week plus swim meets on weekends.
We still had 4-H but that was mostly at night or on Saturday. And
when the older kids got to HS, dd#2 was on the track team, and they
also had band practice after school (particularly marching band).

Then we got horses. The kids went to the farm on the bus to take care
of their ponies, and I picked them up later.

In any case, we had dinner about 7, and they did their homework
afterwards or in some cases there was time the next morning.

Ericka Kammerer...

Yikes. That would be a total no-go here. DD is in
bed by 7:30, so 7pm is waaaay too late for dinner. And,
if DS1 or DS2 had an hour of homework, there'd be no way to
get dinner plus homework in before their bedtimes.

Rosalie B....

DH wanted dinner at 6, but if I was coaching swim team from 4:30 to 6,
and the kids had to get showered and changed and then we had to drive
half an hour to get home from the pool, there was no possible way for
him to have dinner by 6. If I was lucky, it might be 6:45.

When we lived in RI, and were doing swim team only 3 days a week, I
left dd#1 home with dd#3 and ds and drove to swim team with dd#2. Dh
got home about half an hour after I left, and he and dd#1 did dinner
so it was ready when we got home. But the next year, he was away so
everybody (all four) came to swim team at the same time.

DD#1 needs a lot of sleep. But when she was in first grade, she was
usually up at the same time as dh to have breakfast with him - he
would leave the house at 6 or 6:30. I put their breakfasts out for
them (cold cereal and hard boiled eggs- dh didn't eat eggs any other
way) and also his lunch was in the refrigerator. So she had a couple
of hours free to do homework after breakfast and before school if she
needed it.

When we moved down here dd#1 was in 7th grade and when I started
coaching 5 days a week, dd#1 was in 8th grade. I don't remember
exactly when they went to bed at that point.

Best wishes,
Ericka

When we moved to RI, dd#1 was in 4th grade, and dd#2 was in 2nd grade.
When we left there dd#1 was in 7th grade, dd#2 was in 5th grade and
dd#3 was in kindergarten. They all seemed to do their homework

Rosalie B....

I think except for the homework issue, the school sounds like a good
fit for your ds, and I don't see any reason to move him now.

toypup...

Yeah, that's why I want to wait and see. He might like doing homework.
When I break it up for him, it is more manageable, though it takes the
better part of a day to complete, since we have to do homework -- break --
do homework.

without undue effort on my part, and I don't think dd#3 had any
homework in kindergarten.

toto...

Unfortunately though, there is much more homework being given now even
in the lower grades.

Neither of my kids had any homework in kindergarten. They didn't have
a lot in 1st through 3rd grades.

toypup...

Agreed. I didn't have any homework in kindergarten. I didn't have much
homework in 1st through 3rd grades.

Nowadays, at least in our school, kindergarten is like my first grade but
even harder. They start the first day writing words.

I've just heard about our first grade. The first day of homework there
involved writing an eight sentence paragraph. My first day of first grade,
I didn't even know how to read.

hour for arrival/snack/reconnect, then an hour plus of homework, then
a half hour for dinner (forget going out to dinner or having a
leisurely dinner), and you're left with 2-2.5 hours. For an
hour's activity that's fairly nearby, that's at least an hour and
a half including transportation *if* it starts and ends precisely
on time. That leaves an hour or less for *everything* else, and
that time is probably broken up unless the timing for everything
is perfect (e.g., dinner is ready the moment homework is done,
the activity slots in perfectly, no complication from other
kids' schedules, etc.). It seems to me, at least, that the net
effect is that the kids are pretty much going constantly. I
don't see how one squeezes in lots of tv time, family time,
game time, reading time, etc. And even though there are days
when it isn't as hectic, a couple days a week when the pace is
more leisurely doesn't really compensate for too many other days
being too stressful. And I shudder to think of how families
with two parents working outside the home manage to juggle it
all.
For our schedule, we get a break on Mondays because
the elementary schools have early dismissal on Monday.
Unfortunately, I can't schedule activities on Monday because
this year the classes/lessons/whatever they need are not being
offered on Mondays. That's nice in that it gives the kids a
"free" day when they likely have time to invite someone over
to play or do something else, but it creates a crunch the rest
of the week. Tuesday they have to get home and have homework
done in time for a 5pm dinner in order to make it to a 6-7:30pm
class, after which there'll be time for pretty much nothing
more but coming home and getting ready for bed. On Wednesday,
it's pretty much the same drill. On Thursday I couldn't get
the activities after dinner, so I pick them up at school and
shuttle between the various kids' activities and get them home
by 5:45 and get dinner on the table ASAP so they can do homework
after dinner. Friday they theoretically don't have homework,
so that's a "free" day for activities. Anything over an hour
of homework a day on Tue-Thu pretty much means a late bedtime,
which is not tolerated well by my kids. They practice musical
instruments before school to fit that in. I don't really see a
way to make it work short of quitting the activities. (It would
be delightful if I had infinite flexibility on when the
activities happened, but I don't.) And, of course, that's
the normal schedule. As kids get older, most activities
create increasing demands on the kids' times and also involve
special events outside the usual commitment. So, when there
are performances or other things that come up related to their
activities, the schedule is even more tight.
When they are older, one presumes that they will be able
to stay up a bit later at night, which will free up some time.
They will also (unless the schedules change) get home a bit earlier
from school. But in elementary, and particularly early elementary,
kids shouldn't have to choose between foregoing a reasonable
extracurricular load and staying up late to accommodate homework.
At least in my experience, what happens around here is that the
kids do the activities and just go to bed far later than is
acceptable to me (or workable for my kids). Honestly, I don't
really see how to fix the problem. It boils down to a simple
matter of math. I don't see a way to get more efficient and
make it better somehow.

Best wishes,
Ericka

say at least some of it is. There are a lot of things learned in the
lower grades that require rote drill, such as arithmetic and
handwriting. I'd rather see the rote drill done at home so that more
class time can be devoted to more interesting things, like science
experiments.

frank megaweege...

I'm surprised so many agree and sympathize with you.
30 minutes worth of writing his name, address and phone number and
coloring a couple of pictures doesn't sound 'exhausting',
'overwhelming' or 'ridiculous'. Maybe you don't think it's the best
use of time if you had other productive activities planned instead, but
many kids would otherwise be plopped in front of the tv if there
weren't some structured assignments. I encourage my child to take

Caledonia...

I think you'd probably consider me to be a slacker, then. Instead of
having my five-year-old in K copying out her name, address, and phone
number, she'd write up stories with her wacky phonetic spelling, or
create strange scenarios involving her stuffed animals, creatures that
she'd color, and tiny plastic animals all battling
whatever-Norse-God-story-we'd-just-read for control of under the dining
room table.

I came up with none of these scenarios, nor the idea of creating odd
'magic' doors in our hallways out of masking tape and butcher paper,
nor the strange ballads she'd sing to our dogs -- they're not big-P
Productive, but in my estimation, they're what kindergarteners should
be doing with their time. Not the rote copying out for 30 minutes --
given my daughter, though, this would end up being 10 minutes of
copying, then a break, then 10 minutes of copying -- so instead of
dedicating 2 1/2 hours a week to this stuff, it'd be closer to 4 1/2
hours.

frank megaweege...

It wasn't rote copying for 30 minutes. It was writing name address and
phone number (no way that takes 30 minutes) and coloring two pictures.

hschinske...

*snort* You've obviously never sat with a typical kindergartner and
dictated letter by letter. I'm really amazed the teacher expects them
to be writing *at all* this early in the year -- sure, a lot of
entering kindergartners can write a bit, but many cannot, and early
homework is supposed to be something they can do easily.

toypup...

I'm wondering if your wife is the one sitting with your kids, Frank? You
don't seem to know how much is too much for a kid. It does take half an
hour for DS to complete his task and he is exhausted afterwards. He cannot
write like you and me. It takes his full concentration to form each letter.

Donna Metler...

How many entering kindergarteners know how to make all their letters, even?
I teach a preschool music class, and I know that I have several students
from this summer who will be entering kindergarten this fall who can't even
legibly write their own names yet, let alone all the other stuff. That's a
lot of writing for a child who may not even quite be 5 yet, depending on
when cutoffs fall. I know that in my former school, at the beginning of the
year the teachers were writing names on papers for children for the first
month or so, at least, and encouraging children to write their name below or
trace the letters initially, and I recall having some kindergarteners for
whom I was still writing their name in music class through the first
semester if I wanted a prayer of being able to read it.

I almost wonder if the assignment was for the PARENT to write the words and
the child illustrate it? That seems more like a beginning of year kinder
project, especially if the goal is to make a book of information to share,
since if you're going to do a class roster, you want to be able to read it!

hschinske...

*snort* You've obviously never sat with a typical kindergartner and

toypup...

No, it was for the child to write, though I wonder if some parents do more
than show them how. At one point, after DS made numerous attempts at
forming the letter "c," I finally just held his hand in mine and helped him
do it. Luckily, we're both left-handed.

We had an assignment on Wednesday that involved cutting out bananas that
have pictures starting with the letter "m" and pasting them to a tree. DS
did it all by himself. He only recently learned to even cut with scissors
(and he's still experimenting on which hand to use), so that was an
accomplishment. It came back with a star (equivalent to "good"), but also a
comment that he needed to cut along the dotted lines. I'm willing to bet
that many of those that came in cut along the dotted lines were cut by the
parent. I know that she may just mean that as something he may look forward
to improving on, but do you think the teacher can be judging him against his
peer's parents? I mean, I'm sure she knows some parents "help" more than

Caledonia...

I think she was just saying that he should practice cutting along
dotted lines -- no judgement, no sense of 'Mr. Smith's scissor skills
are superior to your sons' skills', just something for him to practice.

It seems, to me, that you're taking this far too seriously -- most all
of my kids' work received stars, which meant that the teacher was
putting stars on work -- it wasn't a 'judgement,' or a symbolic grade
('equivalent to good'), just something the teacher did. In the winter,

toypup...

I might be taking it too seriously, but they had a parent night and they
had a printout of what each symbol means and a shining star is "excellent",
a star is below that, a smiley face is below that, a check is below that.
Anything with a letter ("O" for outstanding, etc.) will be averaged in for
the final grade.

Caledonia...

Wow. Well, as you can tell, I'm *completely* out-of-it regarding your
sons' school.

kids' work was given fall leaf stickers, in the winter, snowflakes.
Your jump to believing that his peers' parents were the
scissor-wielders, and that this is setting up unnatural expectations
seems more like your own concerns/fears regarding DS' education.
Reading this, it just seems like he's a K student and hasn't yet honed
his scissor skills, period.

others, but could the quality of the parents' work be affecting her
expectations? Has anyone had this happen to their child? I'm one of those
parents who will make DS do most all the homework. If he can't cut along
the dotted lines, I will not help him cut it more nicely to present that as
his own work. OTOH, I'm new at this, so maybe other parents have more
insight.

Rosalie B....

I've been thinking about this.

The school year is a very long time. How much does homework - done or
not done - count in an kindergarten child's grade?

There could be 180 days worth of assignments, plus 180 days of class
work. If a child does not complete all the homework assignments, what
affect will this really have? Will the teacher say that the student
should not be promoted to the next grade because only 80 percent or
only half of the homework is done, if the child can actually do the
work, but just doesn't do it?

toypup...

Well, they apparently give stickers for homework turned in and they get a
prize at the end of the week if they have all the stickers. DS would be
very upset if he did not get his prize. He was excited and proud of the toy
he got yesterday.

Rosalie B....

Yes it would matter to the child, and you WANT it to matter to the
child because (as you say) you don't want to wait until HS to start
emphasizing homework. But it isn't necessary for the action of not
doing some homework in kindergarten to absolutely have to result in
not emphasizing homework until they reach high school. It's not an
absolute.

Plus, as I've just thought- won't the child be extremely upset when
down the road he's sick or there is some family emergency and he
doesn't get his stickers or toy? Are they going to keep giving the
toys out forever?

toypup...

If he's sick, he's supposed to make up the homework. He will still get a
prize, if he makes up the homework. As far as I can see, this teacher will
give out prizes for the entire year. If they don't give stickers or prizes
later, like it first grade, I think it will be okay, because none of the
students will get stickers or prizes. As it is right now, he will be one of
the few not to get his stickers or prizes if he does not cooperate.

toto...

Ugh.... This kind of sticker and reward system teaches children to
value getting prizes not to work because they want to learn the
skills. I HATE this even if it is only in kindergarten. An occasional
prize or sticker is one thing, but every week?

I'm not suggesting that you should allow a child to slack off and not
do the homework.

What I'm asking really is - what will the teacher do if a child does
not complete all the homework? If you have to go out of town suddenly
for some family emergency, and he doesn't get the homework done, can
you write an excuse note? Does the child have to have a note from the
doctor that he couldn't do the homework if he is sick?

toypup...

Like I said, if he is sick or there is an emergency, he is supposed to make
it up.

Some of the work is graded for a letter grade, but I don't know which, so he
might end up with a lowered grade, if I pick the wrong homework not to turn
in.

Also, I want him to have the idea that school is important, and I think that
would be difficult if I tell him he can disregard some of the work that the
teacher assigns. I believe strongly in setting precedent, so the attitude I
want him to have in HS is the attitude I will attempt to instill in him now.

Akuvikate...

Valid reasoning, and probably appropriate. On the flip side, FWIW, my
mother says she let me stay home for about 1/3 of the year in
Kindergarten because I didn't like my teacher. My mom would pick me
up, I'd say I didn't feel well and couldn't go to school the next day,
and she'd just let me stay home. I liked my teacher in 1st grade and
that was it -- I never had a problem valuing school after that, nor
wanted for much in academic performance. If your household strongly
values education and that's clear in how you operate, fudging things in
Kindergarten won't undermine that too much.

Kate, ignorant foot soldier of the medical cartel
and the Bug, 3 years old

As a teacher in 6th grade, I had a great deal of difficulty getting
some children to do any homework, but if they could pass tests, and I
thought they had the concepts, I wouldn't fail them. If there was a
semester project that was not completed, or was completed poorly,
their grade would be lower, but it wouldn't trigger retention.

The goal, it seems to me, would be for the child to develop the skills
that are needed, because the grades aren't THAT important in the world
scheme of things until high school, for college admission, and even
poor HS grades can be overcome with determination.

toypup...

Like I said, I don't want to wait until HS to start emphasizing schoolwork.

Oh, if you all can believe this, on parent night, the teacher told us about
enrichment homework that was not mandatory. We could give it to our kids
when they have extra time. I just about fell out of my seat.

Caledonia...

I have a daughter whose fine motor skills aren't great, but has a crack
memory (and just to balance it all, another daughter with astounding
fine motor skills and a so-so memory for detail)...but somehow I'm
reading that this isn't what you're asking....

I can sympathize with having some concerns regarding the competition
surrounding student performance and whether your child will 'measure
up' (heavens, here, I feel embarassed that I'm one of the few SAH moms
with only a masters' degree -- almost every other mom has a terminal
degree), but truly, I think you're overinterpreting the teacher's
comments.

toypup...

Thanks. Your comments are welcomed.

Caledonia...

Knowing the context, I'm sorry I said that I felt you were
overinterpreting the teacher's comments.

dictated letter by letter. I'm really amazed the teacher expects them
to be writing *at all* this early in the year -- sure, a lot of
entering kindergartners can write a bit, but many cannot, and early
homework is supposed to be something they can do easily.

You should have plenty of time left over to play dress up.

Caledonia...

This may be one of those YMMV experiences, but at five (this is K), DD1
hadn't learned 'chunking' terms to assist in memorization, so I would
have written out her name, address, and phone number as the address
itself was somewhat meaningless to her, and she would have copied it,
slooowly and painstakingly.

I haven't played 'dress up' since I left consulting.

pride in completing a task to the best of his abilities (even if the
task itself is of questionable value- give the teacher some benefit of
the doubt). 30 minutes of school assignments outside of the classroom
just does not seem like too much to ask.

Caledonia...

For me, rote copying for a five-year-old doesn't strike me as either
little-p productive or big-P Productive, but as a 'no-input-required'
activity calculated to fill up time -- unless, of course, the whole
point is to introduce five-year-olds to the concept of activities that
will just 'fill up' time.

frank megaweege...

I don't want much of my 6 year olds time to be filled with boring rote
activities, but a certain amount of that is necessary in learning to
write (physically that is, as opposed to creatively).

Caledonia...

Physical writing, I've noticed in my very limited sample set of
volunteering in a first grade class (that's age 6 here) improves over
time with experience -- at the start of 1st grade, kids' handwriting
was all over the place and LARGE. By the end of the year, they were
using narrow-ruled paper, and I'd wager that 95% of the kids were
writing (letter formation and content) clearly. In K, some kids were
still used to using primarily upper-case letters most of the time...

This was accomplished, during the past year (1st grade), by having kids
keep journals and write stories -- it was neat to assemble these things
and notice the evolution of story structure, spelling, and letter
formation. There was none of the 'copy this sheet 10x' that I remember
from 1st (not K) grade.

Heck, back in K in my day, we still napped -- and it was only a
half-day K.

I guess at 30 minutes my limit isn't crossed. To me it's not too much
but to you and others it is. So how much wouldn't be too much?

Caledonia...

For a 5 year old, an amount of 'required homework' that I feel
comfortable with is zip. A great optional weekly assignment would be to
describe something that happened -- either with a picture, words, or
combo thereof for the 'show and tell' part of class. And for a 5yo,
that amount, to me, wouldn't be 'too much.'

Conversely, what's your goal in having a 5 yo do 30 minutes of homework
a day?

frank megaweege...

[stayed away from the computer this weekend]

To be honest, I'm somewhat playing devil's advocate, because my
kindergartner didn't have 30 minutes of homework every night. He had
something most days, probably averaging more like 10 or 15 minutes.
Occasionally it took 30 or more.
My inclination is to support the teacher and the school in their
mission and to accept that every policy may not be ideal for each
individual child. My peeve on this issue is the sense that some
parents seem antagonistic towards the role of public education. To a
certain extent, when you're child enters school, you are giving him up
to the collective. The policies and curriculum cannot cater to every

StephanieTheGoofy...

We've become The Borg?

enigma...

this is another reason why my kid is not ever going to public
school...
kindergarteners should not have any homework. zero. zip.

Chookie...

Because there are lots of private schools out there with no-homework policies,

Chookie...

DS1 is in kindy at our local public school, where homework is 10 mins of
reading (which we do at bedtime). Officially, they get a small amount of
homework in this second half of the year, but we have seen only one such piece
of homework in 5 weeks!

right? Riiiiight.

nada. kindergarten should be an enjoyable introduction to the
joy of learning (which AFAICS, public schools drive out of a
kid as fast as possible), not something resembling boot camp
with additional work at home when a kid should be able to play
& be a kid.
first grade homework of 15 minutes or so of spelling, math or
science is fine. more than that is too much, IMO.
i didn't have real homework until 3rd or 4th grade & it
wasn't nightly. it was week long or forenightly projects. i
could not support a teacher or a school that expected my child
to give up his life outside school to homework, especially not
in kindergarten.

of course, i have no respect for "society" either ;)

frank megaweege...

He has plenty of time to play and it sounds like they do alot of fun
activities in the classroom.

frank megaweege...

I respect the position of keeping your child out of the school system
if you don't agree with the concept. It's much better than enrolling
them and creating an antagonistic relationship.

enigma...

i endured public school. it was such a waste of my time, but
my parent's didn't know there could be options. i do know
about the options & i choose not to subject my child to the
herd mentality of public education.
yes, i most likely would be antagonistic. i was a quiet child
(except for the time i told that 2nd grade teacher i didn't
need school because i could read & learn anything i wanted to
know... she took my Arthur C.Clarke book away from me & made
me stay in from recess). i had a *lot* of issues with public
schools, from bad teachers, to overzealous jr. high guidance
councelors labelling me "schizophrenic", to poor scheduling on
the part of the high school so i couldn't get the classes i
needed to get into premed... not to mention abject boredom &
suffering through dealing with "peers". yup, i *hate* public
schools.

toypup...

Huh? You mean you couldn't get the classes you needed to get into college?
The university I went to had tons of premed students. Basically, anyone who
got in could take the courses it took to get into med school (doesn't matter
what their major) and call themselves premed. There was a medical student
at our school who graduated as a music major. Anyone can be premed. It
wasn't like they had this major that said "premed." I know there were some
programs that lead directly to medical school, but that isn't the usual

Irene...

Afaik, my school didn't have anything quite that bad, but there was the
situation that my senior year, the way the schedule worked out, iirc,
English, AP Calculus, and AP science (Bio II or Chem II). I opted out
of science, since I didn't need it, and another friend of mine opted
out of AP English but took the test anyhow and got a 5, much to the
chagrin of the naysayers in the English dept!

I'm not sure if we had the 2 science clause in our school - I never
tried to do that one. I think you could take 2 languages at a time.

route.

lee

c....

I had a similar experience to yours (most vividly from middle school
through high school, and I was at a top rated public high school in the
state) - but realistically is private school really that much better? I
suppose you can pick and choose more, but there's still the inherent
issues (peers, 'required courses' and materials, and other issues to go
along with expensive private school (overzealous parents wanting to buy
their kids way into ivy league, spoiled kids, etc...). Its a hot issue
where I currently live, as the public schools aren't rated terribly high
and by middle school most kids go to expensive private schools. We
aren't sure what to do - for now our first grader is in a solid public
elementary school and we are happy with it so far, but trying to weigh
all the options for later....

enigma...

Boo is in a Montessori school. they have mixed age classes
(preschool/kindy is 3-6, lower elementary is 6-9, upper el is
9-11, jr.high is 11-13 . there are Montessori
high schools, but our school doesn't have high school classes
yet), which prevents social stratification by age & allows the
children to work ahead far easier than in public schools
(where everything is aimed at the lower end of average, so
smart kids are bored & kids who aren't quite there
developmentally yet are frustrated by inability). it's also
more set up to encourage individual interests & choice of
work. class sizes are much smaller. Boo's lower el class will
have 20 children & 2 teachers (teachers, not teacher & aide).
i am waiting to see how his work plays out at the start of
this year, because he had an intellectual growth spurt last
winter... he was in preschool, but finished the entire kindy
curriculum in 3.5 months, then a quarter of the first grade
stuff in math & language... which is why he's starting first
grade.
he does have an ASD, but the school is very accomodating
without my having to deal with the local school district &
it's pathetic excuse of special services :p if i say "try this
method for discipline" or "try letting him do his work while
sitting in a cardboard box" or "if he fidgets, make him walk
laps around the play yard", they'll try it. very willing to
work with us getting him what he needs to work comfortably. i
did have a minor issue with his preschool teacher last year
insisting on eye contact & stopping him from walking in
circles, but i took that to the head teacher & resolved it
(working in a box is calming enough that he stopped doing the
circles).
he's getting one of these:
1120
to use at school instead of a box ;)
lee

c....

He sounds really bright - good for you for finding the right match for
his (and your) learning style. We are in wait and see mode for our
oldest daughter, who is really bright and way ahead of the public school
curriculum. Its frustrating.

lee

person's lifestyle and beliefs.

frank megaweege...

In my opinion the o.p. overreacted to a couple of assignments the first
week of school. Most likely things will settle down into a reasonable
routine.

Ericka Kammerer...

Why would you assume that when she had to sign
a homework policy that said kindergarteners were expected
to do a half hour a night and 3rd graders were expected
to do 1.5 hours a night? Sounds to me like they said
what they meant and meant what they said.

frank megaweege...

The signed agreement only makes the complaining worse. She knew going
in!

Ericka Kammerer...

Apparently some people told her it wasn't going
to be as much as that in practice, but I agree, the agreement
was a red flag.

Cindi - HappyMamatoThree...

I am afraid I would be unlikely to sign an agreement like this in the first
place unless there was some way for teachers to assure that the homework
which could not be completed in the given length of time would not be held
against the child, either grade wise or other wise. That is just not
possible I am afraid

Here in the school district my children attend some of the schools have
started having weekly homework "contracts" which means that the learning
goals for the week to come are sent home on the Friday before. The entire
week's homework requirements are in the contract folder. The homework
contract folder is due back on Thursdays with a new one sent home on Friday.
Thus giving the child almost a full week to complete all of the assignments
and for the parent to make sure their children are reaching the goals. If
something extra comes up or there are problem areas, then supplementary work
is sent home for the parent and child to work on together throughout a
week's time.

My niece and nephew's teachers's utilized the contract system last year and
everyone was really pleased with the outcome. This does require that
teachers plan a great deal in advance but it has worked really well in the
schools using it.

Cindi

toypup...

I knew he would have homework, but I didn't know it would be this intense.
I mean, I figured it would be half an hour of coloring or writing the letter
"A," not writing addresses and phone numbers, names of family and such *on
his first day* when many kindergarteners can't even write one letter. DS
spent numerous attempts making the letter "c." Imagine him doing the entire
assignment. I get the impression you were not the primary caretaker in your
home, considering your other posts. I think you don't have a clue what most
kindergarteners are like.

frank megaweege...

There are two primary cartakers in my home.
It's true I don't know what most kindergartners are like. I've only
spent significant time with one.
I agree that the assignment sounds like a bit much for the first day.
If it were me I wouldn't make an issue of it unless the assignments
were consistently overwhelming over the long run.
I don't advocate the position that more homework is better. My
position is to work as a partner with the teacher and school as much as
possible. There do have to be boundaries, and an excess of homework
could be one, but 'excess' has to be defined and my definition seems to
allow the teacher more leeway than many of yours does.

The resulting griping represented laziness, selfishness and anti-social
attitudes that I see as a real threat public education.

Ericka Kammerer...

Huh? I don't think it is in *any* way lazy to
think that children shouldn't be doing that much homework.
For example, good luck getting your 3rd grader to do regular
chores around the house with a homework load like that,
at least during the week. There won't be time for him
to help out with the dishes. There are many other good,
valuable things that get sacrificed to this level of
homework.

I'm all for research based best practices and I realize there are many
inefficiencies in the way most kids are educated. But some of the
scenarios being talked about (eg. a third grader with 1.5 hours of
homework every night that you mentioned) sound outlandish, to the point
that I have a hard time believing they're prevelant in real life.

Ericka Kammerer...

Why would you say that? I've HAD 3rd graders with
that much homework, and the OP had to sign a statement
saying the expectation was that much homework. You may
be fortunate that this is not the case in your neck of
the woods, but I can assure you that it happens in other
places. Do you think we are lying about that?

frank megaweege...

Not lying. But the issue seems overblown. Like I said, maybe I'll

Ericka Kammerer...

Overblown, how? How would you deal with 1.5 hours
of homework with your 8yo?

Best wishes,
Ericka

look back someday and wonder how I could have been so naive.

toypup...

I've talked to some parents now and some third graders are doing 2 hours of
homework a night. It's supposed to be a maximum of 1.5 hours, but they
can't finish. Supposedly, if they don't finish by the maximum allotted
time, we can write a note for the child to get full credit, but if they
don't finish regularly, we have to meet with the teacher. I think if it
doesn't get resolved, we'd have to transfer out. So, instead of triggering
that cascade, parents just make their kids finish. If you don't believe it,
you don't know our school. I have spoken to enough parents (and one adult
former student) and lots of homework is the norm. I don't know about the
local school. I'll have to see what they are doing. So far, I know the
local school does assign about the same amount of homework DS is getting for
the younger grades.

Barbara...

It seems to me that in the long run, you're going to have 3 options:

(i) live with it;

(ii) conclude that this program is not right for you or your child,
and move him to the local school (where at the very least you won't
have signed a *contract*);

(iii) organize the parents to suggest a change in the program; at the
very least, when the kids get older, try to get all of the parents to
limit homework time to the max agreed to, since its unlikely they can
or will throw *everyone* out.

toypup...

Yeah, it's like I said, I'm going to wait out the year before making any
decisions. It hasn't been very long, but DS seems to be thriving in their
very structured program. It is actually so structured that I wouldn't have
liked it for myself, but he loves structure, more than the average kid.
That part fits him to a T.

As far as the homework, for now, we are able to split half of it up for
before and after school. It's really not so daunting that way. The problem
may come in first grade, when it's full day and then homework. We'll see.

As I've suggested before, though, give it some time before you make a
decision. Last week's homework seemed very goal-oriented to me
(creating a face book); it may slow down. Also, at the beginning of
the year, kids tend to be slower (coming off vacation), and teachers
are just feeling out what the class can do and how long it takes.

Chookie...

I personally think that that is an improper way to issue homework: it
penalises the slower children.

Chookie...

Ditto here. I just think your assumptions are simplistic.

Public school = bad, lots of homework and
Private school = good, no homework

do not seem terribly realistic ways to approach education.

Caledonia...

But is that what enigma is saying? I always believed (and I could be
wrong) that she'd opt for homeschooling if she didn't find a good match
between her son and a formalized educational program. Right now, she
has found a good match in a Montessori -- but I don't believe that
she's arguing that private schools are not inclined to assign homework
for the sake of it.

Things could improve.

Who knows? Maybe in a few years I'll think back on this conversation
and realize I'm being naive.
Right now I like that my child has homework. I feel it reinforces what
was learned in the classroom and begins to instill some structure and
discipline. It's also a way for me, as a parent, to be informed and

Ericka Kammerer...

No one's knocking an *appropriate* level of homework.
It's just not a situation where a little being good means
that a lot is better.

involved in what my child does at school. I see it as my responsiblity
to make sure that the assignments are approached in such a way that are
not counterproductive to these goals.

Ericka Kammerer...

If you should ever find yourself in a situation
where your child is being given an unreasonable amount of
homework, you will find that your options to make the
situation productive are very limited. I'll certainly
hope you don't get there, but it happens to some of us
and it isn't pretty.

Best wishes,
Ericka

If some aspect of my child's education becomes too out of sync with
what I believe, the first step would be to schedule a meeting with the
teacher. Out of curiosity, has anyone who is bemoaning the amount of
homework discussed it with the teacher? Did you arrive at any
understanding or remedy?

Ericka Kammerer...

Well, at this point, most experts advise that early
elementary homework should be no more than 10 minutes/grade
level/night (e.g., 10 minutes for 1st grade, 20 minutes for
2nd grade), if there is to be any homework at all. And that's
supposed to be "kid minutes" not "adult focused minutes."

Best wishes,
Ericka

toto...

In Kindergarten? These are 5 year olds, not older kids. The value of
homework in the lower grades has not been proven. I think a little
bit once in a while is fine, but not every night and not 30 minutes
worth for this age. Most 5 year olds still struggle with writing and
they need to get their fine motor skills up to par first.

KenG...

I agree with you completely. I was actually thinking about 3rd or 4th
graders when I wrote the response. For sure, 1/2 hour is too much at
that age. The core of my suggestion, however, is that whatever amount
is reasonable at different ages, it should be time, not content bound.

-L....

I sort of agree. Heck, my 2.5 year old does almost that much every
day, with crayons. Of course he can't write well yet, but will sit and
write a series of letters, as I tell him which ones to write. He
sometimes will sit in his chair and "work" for an hour and a half or
more, which includes coloring and writing.

Caledonia...

I think no one is saying that sitting for 30 minutes to do stuff is far
too much to ask -- my perspective is that at K, a 5yo has already done
6 hours of this in school, and I'm more inclined to want a kid to spend
their afterschool time -- which for us, was probably about ~3 hours,
prior to dinner and reading and bed routines -- at that age 'doing
their own thing' (their own coloring, their own stories, reading and
being read to, playing, even) versus having another half-hour of
instruction.

Cathy Kearns...

In California kindergarten is mandated to be 3 hours and 20 minutes. Many
school districts can't offer more than that because they don't have the
classroom space. (They run two half day classes in each class room.) Our
district offers a full day (5.5 hour) kindergarten that is optional. If you
take the full day kindergarten you are at a different campus than you will
be in first grade, as all the full day kindergartens are at a campus set up
for only special programs. If you don't mind the half day kindergarten they
get to be at the same school they will be going to for grades 1-6. Yet
given the choice of half day or full day, most parents pick the full day.

Note, in this district homework is not allowed until second semester of 1st
grade, so this really has nothing to do with homework. Just an observation
that perhaps parents are the ones pushing more schooling.

Ericka Kammerer...

Not to be too cynical, but how much of that is due
to wanting more schooling and how much to wanting more
childcare? ;-) Also, with so many kids in full time child

cjra...

That was exactly my thinking. More school = daycare....

care prior to kindergarten, more kids are ready for full
day kindy than previously. Personally, I haven't seen a
lot of correlation between those who want full day kindy
and those who want more homework (or vice versa). I
certainly know lots of folks who want full day kindy
but still don't want a lot of homework. I would agree,
however, that if you have half day kindy, a half hour
of homework isn't as difficult to manage as it is if
you have a full day kindy.
There certainly are parents who want to keep up
with the Joneses and have more homework. There's a lot
of that around here, which is part of the reason that
homework gets out of line. There seem to be a number of
folks who equate lots of homework with a good education
and want to brag to their friends who are shelling out
for private school that *their* kids are getting even
*more* homework in public school. Aren't they smart--
getting a better education for free! But of course the

cjra...

My sibs in CA all have kids in schools with what I consider to be
excessive homework but they say 'it's how it's done here' and 'you have
to do it for the kids to be competitive.' Seems over board to me esp
for kids in grades 1-4

Along those lines, my nephews, about to start 9th and 10th grade are in
summer school. I asked my sister if they had to make up classes or
something and she said no, it's 'optional required.' ie - it's
technically optional but since every kid in school goes to summer
school, it's basically required if the kid wants to keep up. She said
they like it. Back in my day summer was for *fun* stuff! Not more
school! Now I loved school and learning, but free time to explore and
create was also so important. Is this summer school trend really
becoming the norm?

FWIW - we will likely be living in Switzerland by the time our kids our
school age, and the system is very different. So I'm not tooworried
about our own kids, just yet.

notion that more homework = better education is just
bogus. And those tend to be the same people who are
dragging their kids to dozens of different activities
and the poor kids are stressed out and sleep-deprived.
Fortunately, that's a minority, but it's a fairly vocal
one around here. If others are too afraid to speak up,
those other voices win out and we all get stuck holding
the bag to feed someone else's ego.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Banty...

Parents pick full day K because it's difficult for many to arrange to be home to
get the kids off the bus in the middle of the day. Working parents in
particular need the full day because it's usually difficult to find daycare to
patch in for the rest of the day.

Barbara...

I've never *bought* that argument because I can't figure out why its
supposed to be *easier* to get home to meet the school bus at 2:45 or 3
pm. At least around here, after school care isnt' available until
first grade. Either way, you've got time to fill in.

Banty...

It's a lot easier to, for example, tag-team who working parents by having one
work from 7 to 3 to be home for the bus, while the other works from 9 to 5.

Barbara...

I've heard of people via the net who were able to do that. I've never
met such a person in real life. Ergo I doubt its a viable option for
the vast, vast majority of working parents, and doubt its a driving
force behind the push for full-day kindergarten.

Banty...

*Many* people I work with do that. Maybe it helps to have a prominent corporate
employer. But people not working for my firm, who are in the trades, do it too.

Also, afterschool care isn't limited to what the school offers! Many home
daycares, for example, will take afterschool kids, and this is harder to do with
a different schedule from other kids. Plus, from SAH parents, I've heard about

Barbara...

Many home daycares in our area are willing to take 1/2 day kids (in my
area, that's preschool, not kindergarten), but are reluctant to take
full day kids because it just takes up too much of their time and space
without enough financial return. There are, of course, other people
who run after school only programs.

Plus, from SAH parents, I've heard about

1/2 day K hours being more likely to run into naptimes and lunchtimes (youngers
have to go to the bus stop with the SAH parent) and breaking up useful time than
a longer K day. Many reasons why a short K day is harder to do.

Barbara...

I've heard those reasons as well. In fact, I think that's a major
reason why people prefer full day.

If there were an option, say, to do only two full Kindy days, and there were a
lot of daycares willing to take kids for the other three days, then you could
take a measure of whether or not parents are "pushing more schooling" by how
many sign up for all day K five times a week.

Barbara...

That doesn't work. Even if your assumption is correct (that people
prefer all day kindy b/c it fills in for daycare), you'd never be able
to separate people who opt for 5 day kindy because they believe its a
good idea from those who want free daycare.

Banty...

Read the above again. I said *IF* there was a common 2 day on 3 day off (for
the 5 day week) option offered, then who chooses that vs. 5 days on may give a
measure of whether or not the preference for full day kindy is really a matter
of wanting "more schooling". Of course that isn't offered anywhere, but it
would be some way to separate the two groups.

Barbara...

I have a better idea. YOU read what I said. Someone who is looking for
*free* daycare is going to take the 5 day option. Someone who likes 5
day kindergarten is going to take the 5 day option. How are you going
to differentiate between the groups? Unless, of course, you're
supposing that the 3 days are *free* which seems highly unlikely.

Banty...

Well, there's never going to be a *perfect* comparison. But, for half-day
kinder, a lot of families can't swing it no matter how much they're willing to
shell out for some kind of daycare option. Indeed, that's why private kinders
are fairly common in my school district, which does only offer 1/2 day kinder.
So folks need to pay for a full time private school to not have to deal with
1/2 day kinder. That's why I sent my son to a Montessori school for
kindergarten. I *was* willing to see how they worked out for perhaps his whole
primary education (it didn't suit him well), but I pretty much had to find some
private kindergarten option.

MMCMDL...

I believe it is offered that way in Ontario - Monday-Wednesday- every
second Friday/ Tuesday-Thursday- every second Friday. Our school board (in
Nova Scotia) looked at it as an option about six years ago, but the province
went to full-day everywhere instead.

When my oldest was in Primary (our equivalent to Kindergarden), they did
it very differently here. She went mornings only for the first couple of
weeks, then the they added afternoons - half the class went M/T/Th
afternoons and the other half went M/W/F afternoons (in addition to the
mornings) She had a friend in another school who went mornings only until
Christmas, mornings and two afternoons until March and full-days from then
until June. I don't know if people found childcare much more onerous, but I
think there generally were providers local to the school areas who worked
around the school schedules.

I liked the way it was. It was nice and gradual and the teacher had
opportunities to work with the class in small groups. My younger daughter
did full day this year. She had much more homework than her older sister
did (she had next to none), but not nearly what the OP described and nothing
until about a month of school had passed. It was also very much geared to
reinforcement and given on a weekly basis - I would say it took about <1 to
~1.5 hours a week by the end of the year, and that included reading.

Older daughter had a teacher in grade six who felt two hours of homework a
night was appropriate. It was a horrible experience for the whole family
and younger daughter will be transferred to another school if he is still
there when she gets that far. (There wew other issues as well.)

The other point that people forget is that kindergarten today is in
large part what first grade was 20 years ago. When I was in (part-day)
kindergarten, we mostly played, and perhaps did some pre-reading and
pre-math skills. Now, many school districts expect kids to come out of
kindergarten reading and writing. Hence the longer day, the sitting at
a desk, and the homework.

Banty...

Sure. But how does that relate to the question of parents preferring fulls vs.
half day kindy?

Barbara...

It doesn't. It relates to the suggestion that it is parents who want
free daycare who are pushing full-day kindergarten. I disagree. I
think the driving force is the increased academics in kindy (which I
think is a rotten idea).

Banty...

Oh, I agree that there are reasons other than daycare to want full-day
kindergarten. I was only pointing out that one can't take the preferential
enrollment in full-day kindergarten to prove to what extent parents think so.

Cathy Kearns...

The half day kindys at the regular schools have before and afterschool day
care from 7:30 until 6pm. (I was still working when my eldest was in
kindergarten, and she went to "Eagle's Nest" before and after school.") The
elementary schools feed into those daycares after they get out of school.
You can also put your kid in daycare until the bigger kids get out of school
(or in the morning if you have afternoon kindergarten). If the full day
kindy has afterschool care, it's not advertised.

If you have a kid in elementary and a kid in this full day kindy you have
two different drop offs places and two different pickups, pretty close to
the same time, so a kid is waiting on a curb somewhere. I just don't
believe people are picking it for the daycare or easier on working parents
aspect.

Chookie...

No -- they are looking for cheaper child care.

hschinske...

That's a really unusual attention span for that age. It's great that he
can do that, but I wouldn't expect most 2.5-year-olds to be able to do
that, especially on an activity they hadn't chosen themselves.

L....

He does choose the activity - he will ask for "paper" and "crayons" and
then "draw" and "letters." He also will sit for 45 minutes or more and
rum on his drum, or play with his guitar by himself. Other people have
commented on his ability to focus on his drum (probably because they
aren't used to the constant drumming! LOL...). I just have sort of
taken it for granted because he entertains himself easily (but often
will ask me to play with him, too).

toypup...

That is the point. He chooses those activities. If it were assigned
homework that he didn't get to choose, it might be a different story. Maybe
not. You might have an unusual kid. That others marvel on his ability to
focus tells you that's not the norm.

frank megaweege...

My oldest is 6 and will start 1st grade this year. He has trouble
focusing for 3 seconds to eat a french fry, but I don't have a problem
with sitting with him for half an hour to help him. He has plenty of
time for a sport and lots of reading (read to and independently) and it
still seems like he plays too many video games.
I agree with you that 1.5 hours every day for a 3rd grader is
excessive. That can't be anywhere close to the norm.

Ericka Kammerer...

Well, it's what the school the OP's son is at
expects for third grade, and I've known quite a few
parents who are struggling with kids in 3rd grade with
that kind of homework. Been there myself with my own

Ericka Kammerer...

My kids haven't really had busy work for homework.
In general, the homework has been good, relevant homework.
My kids are also very good students. Frankly, sometimes I
long for busy work homework ;-) At least they'd be able
to blow through that quickly! All these interesting, creative
homework assignments take *TIME*. Often lots of it. I
think teachers are particularly bad at estimating how long
the "interesting" assignments will take.
Now, if there is a lot of busywork, I suppose
the more capable students will speed through it more
quickly and get more of it knocked out during class.
Other kinds of homework might impact students more
evenly across the board. In any case, when you get
down to brass tacks, if elementary school aged kids are
doing hours of homework a night, they're paying a price
somewhere. That's part of the reason we get all these prima
donnas whose families have to cater to them. School is
the top priority, and it takes most of their time, so
parents don't want to ask them to help around the house
or community because it seems unfair to have their nose
to the grindstone all the time. This creates some very
unrealistic expectations. I simply don't believe that
3rd graders require more time spent on schoolwork than
a 40 hour work week in order to learn what they
need to learn! It just doesn't pass the laugh test.
I think it's a reality that those who are
struggling in school will probably need to spend more
time outside of school working on their skills. It
seems obvious to me that the amount of homework should
be targeted to be doable by those who need it most,
not what can be breezed through by those who have already
mastered the material. Frankly, those kids don't need
to be doing it at all, for the most part.

Best wishes,
Ericka

kids. The way things are headed, it's likely to become
more and more widespread.

Best wishes,
Ericka