more birthday ettiquete questions

DS's b-day is coming up in June. I'm thinking ahead. His preschool is
different from others I know. He starts the day in one room with the entire
preschool, they go to their regular classes, they take naps in the nap room
and end the day with the afternoon staff, sometimes mixed with all the kids
from the different classes, depending on how many are taking naps that day.

DS's main class varies day by day. Some kids are there full time and some
are part-time, but it's not Mon/Wed/Fri, it's whatever day the parents
choose based on availability and need. Some kids nap, some don't.

DS is full-time, so he sees all the kids. If I invite everyone from his
class, that would be about 22 students. He has friends from the other
class, and we can't invite two classrooms full of kids over. So, I'd like

Nikki...

Well we do now. Actually I planned them as seperate that time to it just
didn't work out that way. The unexpectedness of it was a big part of it as
well as a couple other factors.

Nikki...

All ours have been in the yard as well. That first year there were lots of
games planned. I think we skipped one and there was some free play but the
games worked out really well. I can't remember last year for sure but I
don't think there were any games at all.

Nikki...

I know but the action moves around :-) Dh did help a lot. I've mostly
moved on from this and only have a few lingering resentments, lol ;-) I
only share the day/time of the family parties now so I am wiser :-)

him to choose which friends to invite, since he seems to know who he wants
over.

The problem is that drop-off and pick-up is so varied that I can't wait
around outside everyday waiting for each child's parent to come. I don't
want DS handing out invitations in class, since DS didn't even know he had
an invitation when he got it and nearly didn't give it to me, and I don't
want kids who don't get one to feel left out.

Mary Ann...

I may be harsh, but if I know I can only invite a certain number of
children and my son chooses who to invite I just get on with it. Of
course, I've guided him at times when needed, but generally I don't get
in a twist about missing children out.
Parents should understand. If your son get pally with someone he didn't
invite, or misses someone out then you'll be able to invite them over
to play.

As for the practicalities, some day cares are happy to distribute
invitations for parents, others have a blanket no (which is
understandable). In the latter case, I'm sure they'll be able to show
you where each child keeps their bag and you can pop the envelope in
there.

Mary Ann

There is a sign-in log for the parents that the teachers and administrator
leaves notes in for the parents. They clip the notes with each child's log.
I was thinking of clipping the invitations there. I'm not sure if that's
okay or if it would be considered rude by the parents of kids who are not
invited. The invitations will be in plain envelopes, but I think the
parents will know they are invitations. Besides, I think DS will want to
write out his friends' names on the envelopes. Please let me know before I
ask the school if this method of distribution is okay.

Ericka Kammerer...

You need to ask the school. This is more of a logistics
issue than an etiquette one, so there isn't an across-the-board
answer. I suspect the school will be fine with it, but I
wouldn't risk putting anything on the clip without getting
permission first.

toypup...

Yes, I'm planning to ask the school. I just didn't want to appear rude to
the parents of children not invited.

Tracey...

On the other hand, those not invited might be relieved. Sometimes I feel
like I've had enough with the endless birthday party invitations, and I
doubt that I'm the only one. I have gotten my child into the habit of only
deciding to attend the parties of the children she is really friends with,
not going just because she was invited.

Ericka Kammerer...

You know, there's nothing you can do to prevent some
folks from getting upset, but there is *never* a requirement
that you invite the entire class to a party or anything like
that. You couldn't go around waving the invitations in front
of the uninvited kids, but what you propose sounds sufficiently
discreet that those not invited should not be miffed about it.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Best wishes,
Ericka

bizby40...

I'm sure the sure has dealt with this issue many times
before. Ask them what they want you to do.

bizby40...

Oops, that should of course read, "I'm sure the *school*
has dealt with this issue many times before.

Jeff...

How about bringing the birthday cake to school, as is the custom, but having
a play date and celebration for him and his five or six or so closest
friends, maybe do something special like go to the zoo or go bowling or

toypup...

How my family feels is important to me, even if you don't think it should
be. They would feel slighted if I did not invite them for the party. We
already don't get along as well as I'd like and that would just further
alienate us. We do get along well at these parties, so I think we should

Banty...

There may be a connection, though, between you doing what you think they want
and you and they not getting along.

Some people are funny in certain pertinent ways. If you pander too much, they
lose respect. Even if you think you can hide that you dont' feel completely
comforable with doing what they want, they pick up on it. So things spiral.

It really works out better to do things on your own terms more.

Just something to consider.

have them there. That it wasn't working is your opinion. It didn't work
last year, because there were no kids, but this year is different, since we
will have kids. If it doesn't work, we'll have to think of a different
option for next time.

Banty...

Sure, try it. With enough distraction around for everyone, it might be good.

something (ok, if he still takes naps at school, he is probably too young
for bowling)? Or if you have a party with his neighborhood friends, the 5 or
6 or so kids could come to that.

toypup...

We'll probably bring the cake to school. The number of friends from school
we are inviting will probably be about 10, but I don't expect them all to
accept. In fact, since they are graduating preschool this year and some

toypup...

I don't think I pander much at all. If I did, I'd be going to visit them
every weekend. To pander twice a year isn't much. Those *are* my own
terms.

toypup...

BTW, Banty, do you never do anything for your loved ones because you care
about them, because it would make them happy? Though I don't get along as
well as I'd like with my family, I still care about them, and I do think
going slightly out of my way once in a long while isn't a big deal. I'm not
sure exactly what part of holding a party for everyone is going so much out
of my way as to be considered pandering at this point. I invite them and if
they come, they come. That's how it's always been. I'm not holding it at a
children's venue, but that's not such a sacrifice. I am hiring an
entertainer so that I don't ignore them, but I'd do that with the other
adults there anyway.

Banty...

Oh absolutely of course I do things for my family for their sake to make them
happy sometimes. But, perhaps you don't realize how this is coming across, but
plainly you're struggling with doing things in a way that aren't really
comfortable for you, just to please your folks, and IME that just doesn't work.
I'm only suggesting that you shift the family piece of it to a place that's not
getting in the way of other things you're trying to do, like celebrate a
birthday. That's all. It may help. Or not.

As far as why I don't get along with my family, their biggest complaint is I
don't care enough about them to visit them each and every weekend. I never

toypup...

But I personally don't feel it's a struggle in a bad way. I mean, it's not
a struggle in the sense that I feel all stressed out. I was just struggling
in the sense of how to make it work, but it's not a stressful thing at all,
and I have it all planned, so I have zero struggles now. I'm actually quite
happy with the plans I have. This thread had nothing to do with whether I
should celebrate the birthday the way I plan, it was how to go about
inviting the kids.

call them, either. The why of it is a long story. I never take their
advice and I don't call them when I need help is also high on their list.
My mom has always said I'm too much like a man, which was not a compliment.
She is from the old country and independence from her was an insult. They
wanted me to live at home until I was married, even if marriage was 30+ yo.

Banty...

I dont' have the cultural angle in my case, but I surely can understand how
demands that you go through a lot of motions to *act* very close drives a sane
person to do just the opposite, from experience with one of my own parents. But
that's part of what informs my advice. I'm all for drawing boundaries.

It's just that my impression is:
1. You struggle with combining your son's birthday with a family visit (for
understandable reasons - for starters, last time you did a family-only thing,
they sort of blew him off!)
2. Over the past few years you *have* invited them for a family birhtday thing,
so they *expect* it. (All the more keenly because they expect a *lot*.)

So I'm saying, maybe consider adjusting their expectations for a visit or visits
that work better for you.

As far as people wanting to hold huge parties because everyone does it,
what's wrong with that? Most everyone cares on some level what people think

Ericka Kammerer...

If the only reason one does it is that everyone
else does it, that's a problem. I don't think it's a particularly
good idea to teach children it's okay to overspend/overcommit/
stress out/compromise one's principles/whatever to throw a
big party in order to keep up with the Joneses. That's a

toypup...

I'm not personally into that, but I think that if someone gets their thrill
from that, then it's okay with me. If they are stressed out about it, then
I don't want to hear about it.

recipe for a lifetime of disasters. Now, if you have some
*other* reason for throwing a big party *and* you can
afford (financially/physically/emotionally/etc.) to do it,
then no problem. But if the only reason one is throwing a
party is that one believes it is expected or failing
to throw a big party makes one uncool or some such thing,
I do think that's a problem at a pretty basic level.

Best wishes,
Ericka

at least on some issues. It would matter to some if they were thought of as
rude or uncool or unfashionable or whatever. The only people who would be
bothered by the large parties, as far as I can gather, are those who would
feel pressured to do the same. But that is their problem, not the
party-throwers'.

Banty...

Oh I have no problem with big parties, and I've stated that in this thread.
Some folks just thrive on parties and throwing them, the more the merrier! What
I object to, in a *general* way, is when it gets to be a bandwagon thing (which
I think it has), where Mr. Jones would rather have a small family thing, but her
birthday child and anyone the birthday child would invite, now have expectations
that it has to be a huge pool party or Chuckee Cheese extravaganza. That really
has nothing necessarily to do with what you're doing.

will be on vacation, I'm not sure how many will be in town.

I want to do family and friends all together so we only have to do one party
at home, as opposed to a family party and friends party as suggested by MIL.

Banty...

LOL! Did she volunteeer to hold the family party?

toypup...

No. I was wondering aloud what to do about my side of the family. They'd
be disappointed if we only had a kids party and I was wondering how to make
it a kids and family party. She suggested celebrating separately.

Nikki...

I find having them separately much much easier but that is just me. We have
done them close enough together in the past that I leave the decorations up
;-) It also helps that my kids have b-days only 7 days apart so we only
need one family party for the two of them. Luke hasn't had a kids party
yet. I would typically do one for him this year but I'm not because I'll
have two newborns :-) I may try to combine kid parties in future years.
I'm not sure. For us both the family party and the kids party are rather
small so that makes a difference. We are doing things different this year
because of the babies impending arrival. Between two b-days, Easter, and
the birth of twins April will be quite a month, lol.

Luckily our preschool sends out a list of parent name and addresses/phone
numbers for classmates so we have it easy. We can call or mail the invites.
The school has no such beast and I didn't even know parent names. I had a
heck of a time. Good thing we live in a smallish town so I just started
calling the Anderson's until I found the right one :-) We mailed them.
There is a rule that invitations are not to be handed out at school. It
would be nice if I knew the parents of all the kids at school but I just
don't. Hunter is young yet and doesn't have super close friends of the
nature where I would need to call a parent for get togethers or anything.

Banty...

When did kid birthdays get to be an extended family bonding ritual? OK, the
*first* birthday is a big deal (at least lately), but what happened to the
immediate family (meaning, the household) serving the cake and singing 'happy
birhday' after dinner? Even the kid birthday parties used to be something more

Ericka Kammerer...

Well, I don't actually have any heartburn over using
a family birthday (kid or adult) as an excuse to get the troops
together and have a good time. It's just a problem if it's
too burdensome for the hosts but they feel they can't "let
everyone down" by not hosting another one this year.

Banty...

Sure, I don't have any heartburn either over someone wanting to throw a party
for *any* excuse. Nothing inherently wrong with a big bash! But perhaps some
folks have gotten little spoiled about the possibility of a big bash - toypup
referred to having a family party because her family would be "dissapointed".
That's quite a different thing, and goes into the realm of what you described in
your last sentence.

or less special, not held every single year.

Michelle J. Haines...

My husband's family -always- celebrates birthdays together, especially
for the children. (Everyone's except mine. We celebrated mine for
the first time since my husband and I have been together, and I
haven't gotten over the shock yet.) We really haven't done the whole
kid party but once or twice, and not since we moved to this town.

Michelle
Flutist

toypup...

For my side of the family, my kids are the only grandkids. We are not
terribly close. It is the only time we all get together.

Banty...

Then you're holding it because *you* want to hold it, and not because "they'll
be dissapointed". (or not - worth thinking about...)

What should be a simple and sentimental little celebration has turned into a
quasi-obligatory set of public entertainments, where the *whole class* gets
invited, then all the extended family gets invited (hope the two sides get along
- would it have to be *three* celebrations if they don't?). With hired clowns
and magicians. It's escalated into silliness.

cjra...

Some families actually *like* getting together and having a party.
Your's doesn't, that's cool. Others do. Not a difficult concept, really.

toypup...

The whole class is not getting invited, hence my post. All extended family
is not invited. My brother and my mom and dad and DH's family is invited.
That's a rather small "all the extended family." We do usually have one
celebration for my side and one for DH's side, since his parents are not
usually in town for the birthday.

Banty...

OK, I know that - I wasn't specifically describing your party either - it was
more of a general rant. But still, you are inviting kids you hardly know or
don't know at all, right? Else you wouldn't have this invite problem. I'm just
advocating for considering birthday parties that are more relaxed and intimate.
Yes, I understand with little kids they're just now making their friends...

Ericka Kammerer...

Sure. Again, I've got no issue with those who want to
make a big deal of a birthday, but it is a problem if people
are feeling obligated to outdo themselves year after year (or
keep up with the Joneses). Sometimes we do a big to-do and
sometimes we don't, depending on what we feel like doing.
I think this year we'll do a big to-do for G.'s birthday
because it'll be a good excuse to do a big 4th of July BBQ
in our new back yard. Might even buy a grill ;-) Next year,

Welches...

No, there just wasn't the space for us to play run around games, and we
couldn't agree on which craft/sitting down games we wanted to use, and there
wasn't the space to have more than one out. The room we had (and there was a
very good reason which I'm not sharing why we could only be there, and there
wasn't a garden) was small for 10 8 yos to do much.

Welches...

Yes, well sometimes they come up with "creative" ideas which you wish you'd
been creative enough to imagine and say weren't allowed!!!

toypup...

But why do you assume that because one party is structured that the parents
structure every moment of their child's time? Maybe they do, but you can't
just assume that.

If they never have the opportunity to do

Welches...

I certainly wouldn't say that the goup I was in never had the opportunity to
do "free play". We had plenty of opportunities. Parties aren't really in my
books the time for free play, you have friends over for tea/for the day for
that.
My memory of the video was being amazed because it was colour. Rarely
watched TV myself and we now don't have one.
Debbie

maybe no party at all, unless I'm feeling festive, ya know.
But then again, any excuse is good for a party in my book.
I'm already laying plans for a bit New Year's Eve to-do
(haven't done one since 1999/2000, so I'm getting the urge
again...).

Banty...

Ah - I got to buy a grill, or at least figure out what dimensions I should plan
for, for the alcove in my new deck ;)

Best wishes,
Ericka

Best wishes,
Ericka

Immediate family and the kids' real friends (in which case the parents should
already know the other parents, therefore already have their addresses).
Period.

Barbara...

Ah. Spoken like someone whose kid has always gone to a neighborhood
school, and whose job allows for things like pick-up and drop-off on
weekdays. That's not everyone's world.

toypup...

Exactly. I didn't meet DS's first best friend for quite some time after
they became close and I didn't get together with the mom for some time after
that. I don't know any of his other friends' parents, save one. Pick-up
and drop-off times are varied, most are students with wild schedules, I
work, and the school is in another city.

One's best friend at school lives 30 MILES away; without traffic,
that's a 45 minute drive. His mom works at the school, so she drives
him and his sibs each day. But he's not exactly available for a lot of
playdates, esp not without a lot of advance planning. In the past
three years that they've been best friends, I've spoken to his parents
a couple of times, but I'm not sure I'd recognize them if I ran into
them out in public.

Actually, I only know the parents of any of his closest school friends
in the most casual way unless they live in our neighborhood ... and
although the school is here, most of the students are not.

toypup...

Don't know why you're so upset. Even if we wanted all the extended family
up to great-aunts and the whole class, you wouldn't have to go, so why be
upset?

Banty...

??

You're taking this much too heavily.

Banty (who quickly got tired of the Chuck ee Cheese circuit)

Renee...

We have the grandparents from each side and any aunts/uncles that want
to come to our kid's parties. But, we dont do anything huge - just cake
and a bbq or pizza. It's more of an excuse to hang out at our house.

We don't know any neighborhood kids. My niece and nephew will be there as
well as children of our friends. I really don't want to do two parties, and
I would almost have to if we do a separate deal for the kids at a venue,
because our family and friends look forward to the birthday get together
every year. It's become a tradition. They want to celebrate our children's
birthdays, too. Besides, I don't really want to supervise a bunch of
preschoolers in areas where I might lose them.

cjra...

Why would you have to have a separate party for kids at a venue??? Can
the classmate friends not also come to the family party?

toypup...

My family's weird. They would rather not go to a kids oriented party at a
kids place. They have all been too long without kids or have never had
kids. I can't get my mom and dad to go to Disneyland with us and I've
offered to buy them season passes so they could hang out for an hour or two
one weekend a month maybe. They refuse, because they don't care for
Disneyland and they don't care to do it just to be around the kids.

Rosalie B....

Well I can relate to that. DH HATES DisneyWorld, although he would
happily hang out with the kids and go to ball games and play games and
take them places. My mom had a family reunion type thing at
Disneyworld, and dh was the only grouch in the group. He refused to
go anywhere or see anything with me, and sat in the hotel room and
watched TV except for going to the big family dinner. I just went
without him.

We did go to Disneyland many moons ago with the oldest two kids when
they were about 2 and 4.

We gave my mom a party for her 90th bday at Chuckie Cheese and she
thought it was a hoot.

grandma Rosalie

cjra...

Oh, I'd have no desire to go to a kids' oriented place myself! I guess
I was thinking why it was necessary for a kids' birthday to be
celebrated at a place such as that, as opposed to a party at home or
maybe a park. But that's 'cause no one I know does those sorts of
parties. Kids birthday parties have all been at someone's house or at a
park with a playground.

toto...

One thing that is nice here in the New Orleans area is the number
of park venues that work well for birthday parties. We just had my
dgs's party at a park with a train (the kids get free rides for an
hour of the party). We had to bring the food and the cake (we had
pizza delivered and bought a sheet cake with trucks and tractors
on it).

There are several parks with carousels and party packages are
available there too.

While I don't like Chucky Cheese, there are some smaller indoor
venues that do nice parties too. We went to one at a Hershey's ice
cream store. It included a simple craft, a little pin the tail on
the donkey game with a balloon donkey and vecro attached tails.
pizza and make your own ice cream sundaes. It was very nice.

Here the other things that are often hired when people have parties
at home are those *bouncy houses* I have seen a few that actually
had pony rides too.

I can fully appreciate the adults having no desire to hang out at Chuck
E Cheese (or Disneyland).

Jeanne...

Well, if your family's weird then so am I and the rest of my family. I
think it's not only totally okay to have a "family" party with aunts,
uncles, cousins and grandparents without a dozen little friends running
around but much more preferable. Most of DD and DS' cousins are much
older and both grandmothers are elderly, so a noisy kids' place just
wouldn't be right for my family either.

toypup...

I think it's totally okay, too, but I was answering the question why we
don't have the family at the children's venue.

cjra...

Actually, the question was why not have the kids at the family venue?

toypup...

Okay, I'll have to go back and read where we got lost in the thread. We are
having the kids over at our house. What's the question?

cjra...

The question was, why couldn't adults be invited to the same party the
kids' were invited to? I think you had said something about hosting
separate parties, but maybe that was someone else.

I can appreciate that some adults just don't like 'family style'
parties and would rather not be around kids. That's ok, and so perhaps
it makes sense to have a different sort of gathering in that situation.

Banty...

Would seem a plan to me - maybe make sure to provide some quieter sitting areas
for the adults to converse.

I didn't realise having a kid's birthday at a kid's establishment was
mandatory.

Banty...

Then why would they be thrown a separate birthday party for the kid?

toypup...

You're confused. They wouldn't. We would. I've thought about it, but I've
decided against it.

Banty...

Heck - when I was in my thirties and a parent of a young kid, I couldn't stand
the kid-party places.

Irene...

Well, I've been wondering the same thing, as for what do we want to do.
The 2 pre-school friend parties ds has been to were only pre-school
friends (and I think one grandfather), both at Chuck-e-Cheese. He was
invited to one at another venue, but since he was sick and didn't go, I
don't know who else was there. Both were relatively small - about 6-8
kids.

OTOH, we've been doing a hodgepodge of stuff. Mainly family, but with
a few neighbor kids added in at ages 3 & 4. (Last year he hadn't been
at pre-school long enough to really have close enough friends to
invite.) It gets pretty big, simply because dh has a big family, so
last year was around 30 people. If I add 6-8 pre-school friends, plus
a parent for each, that's around 45 people!!! So, I can see where the

toypup...

That was one possibility we were floating around and the one we will go
with. I wanted to do a traditional kids' party, with games and such. The
adults would go neglected by me in that case, so I was asking MIL what to
do, so she suggested two parties, so I don't have to worry about the adults
at the kid-centered party. We will have everyone at one party and hire one
entertainer, so I won't have to worry about the kids or neglect the adults.

cjra...

Are the adults really that helpless they are incapable of entertaining
themselves???

I've hosted a lot of parties, and while that means providing food,
drink, music (maybe), a comfortable environment (chairs, etc), there's
not a lot more as a hostess that I do. I mean, everyone seems to manage
to have a great time without me providing some form of constant
entertainment.

Jeanne...

That's been my experience.

2 party thing could be attractive. My SIL still does one big party for
her 4 & 6 year olds, and so do one set of neighbors (tho I think her dd
wasn't in pre-school yet, so didn't have any pre-school friends for the
party.)

cjra...

Ah, see, it's perspective. 45 people doesn't seem like that much to me,
it's a normal party in my family and amongst our friends ;-)

No one I know ever does the Chuck-E-Cheese type thing (too darned
expensive!), and the kids-only parties don't really start til at least
6 yrs old or later.

(We do bring a treat to pre-school for everyone, btw). And for dd's
2nd birthday, I'm keeping it just immediate family - which is 20 people
anyhow.

I think ds still wants to do a party at home - we have done a pinata
every year, and he's already talking about what he wants for this
year's party. And since we don't do many playdates (none with school
friends yet), a party at the house has always been a hit.

So, I guess what I'm getting at is, I've got precedent in my social
circles for both types of parties, so I think we'll be ok either way we
go. I'm not sure what we are going to do...but at least I have a
little bit of time to decide, since it's not until this summer. I do
have at least the family party date set, since we had to plan around my
grandmother's headstone dedication, but I could always add a second
party the next week for friends if we decided to do it. And since it's
summer, you never know if I'll end up with 3 kids or 12!

cjra...

heh, when I was a kid we had a pool, so every party ended up with 50
;-). Our friends have a summer kid and last year got a dunk tank for
his birthday which was a HUGE hit!

MsLiz...

There are too many posts to read through so pardon me if this has
already been suggested. I've almost always ONLY invited the amount of
children to my children's parties that is the same as the age of my age
( until about 1st or 2nd grade) It has always worked well for us.
I've always brought a birthday snack to school...still do and one is in

toypup...

I guess the circles I run in expect the hostess to talk to the guests.

Ericka Kammerer...

I agree that there are competing demands.
However, if it's the child's birthday party, then the
adult guests are expected to fuss over the birthday child
to an appropriate degree and understand that the hosts will
be necessarily involved in supervising and facilitating
the kids' activities. It does mean that they'll get

toypup...

Well, the type of party I would give DS for a kids' party would entail the
full games & prizes activities, not because of anything other than that's
the type of party I'd like to give him. (He wouldn't really mind what type
of party he gets, as long as his friends are there.) For that type of
party, I'd have to basically ignore the adults. I'm not comfortable with

Nikki...

Since you seem to be in the minority, let me just say that I know what you
are talking about :-) I don't consider my in-laws or other relatives all
that high maintenance but it is definitely hard to combine the two parties
IMO. An entertainer is a good idea but I bet you'll still be really busy
with the kids.

Hope you have fun at the party. :-)

toypup...

Ah, thanks for your support and understanding. I was beginning to think I
was the only one who thought the way I do, with the exception of MIL. I'm
hoping we get a few friends to attend, since I think many will be on
vacation.

Sue...

Having gone to and given many kids parties, I get *it* also. Combining
adults and a children's party is hard to do. Your attention really has to be
on the kids and if there are adults there that are more or less just guests,
it is hard to attend to them also. I do have plenty of help at parties too,
so that's not the problem. It's just very busy.

that. Since I can't do that, I'd like an entertainer. Besides, it is

cjra...

Do the other adults not participate *at all*? None of them? The family
you're inviting, do they stay away from the kids completely and not
help? Is your DS's father present?

toypup...

DH helps a bit, but he mostly is my gopher. My parents are my guests. I
don't think they think they should help out. They've never helped out
before.

cjra...

I guess this is just a cultural difference then. I can't imagine going
to a party andnot offering to help, and most people who come to mine do
the same. Nothing wrong either way.

toypup...

I should also add, there's really not much to do. We almost always have the
food catered. It's the talking to adults I need to do, something I'd
neglect with kids' party games back to back.

cjra...

ouch. Back to back games? I'd think that'd be exhausting for everyone!
I'm a big fan of free play time mixed in, but I realise that's not a
popular concept for kids these days.

Jeanne...

Maybe you're underestimating your parents? I remember when my niece
(now 16) was about 5 years old and had a birthday party with friends
(the party was at my sister's home) and my parents were also invited
(family is always invited). My parents were older grandparents (my
father was over 70) we thought they would be confused by the concept of
a child's birthday party (forgetting that they threw them for us when we
were growing up...) We thought being from China and from a generation
where children cater to parents, they would be demanding. But they
didn't demand constant attention; they were fascinated by the children's
games. While it wasn't the usual party for them, they did enjoy the
"new" experience.

One of the things my sister did do was invite the other set of
grandparents (who are younger) and had *me* around to run as gopher. I'm
not saying to have both sets of grandparents there but maybe friends who
are close to both to your son and your parents, or sociable friends who
you know can entertain your parents for the times you need to be with
the children.

I guess why I'm misunderstanding the problem here, is that I am also
most accustomed to adults pitching in and helping, not setting
themselves apart like it's 2 distinct parties. Not like they're working
the party, but being a part of the party, if that makes sense. For
example, at any party in our family, one of three people (my aunt or 2
of my sisters) takes over the margarita making. It's just what they do
:). Certain other people will take over food - not preparing it but
putting it out. If it's a kid's bday with games and such, someone in
addition to the parents (often older kids but also other adults) will
help out with the games/gifts. At my typical parties without family, a

toypup...

Games are a completely foreign concept to my parents. I highly doubt they'd
know what to do and I don't think they'd be the least bit interested. I
don't know how other guests would be. I've never done it before.

cjra...

Ah, see, again, perhaps a cultural sort of difference (i don't mean
ethnic culture, but micro/family/social circle sort of culture). I
figure anyone coming to a birthday party for a 3 year old would *know*
the party is about the 3 yr old first, and them second, and as such any
activities appropriate for a 3 yr old are likely to occur. Even if not
taking part, would not make life so difficult for the hostess because
they feel their needs are not being met.

Jeanne...

Again, you may be underestimating your parents (your dad?). I think
while they wouldn't participate but maybe they could help in a small
way. That may make them feel more connected to the children's party.

similar trend creeps up - everyone participates *in* the party, and
that includes helping out in small ways, or at least offering to help
(usually very little assistance is necessary at that point), including
looking after each others' kids.

But perhaps that's not the norm for most people. I'm sorry you're left
to do 100% of it yourself, serving everyone and entertaining everyone.
I can see that would be difficult.

really my one good opportunity to meet and get to know the other parents
better and potentially start some playdates. It's one of the reasons I've
been bummed we haven't been invited to more birthday parties. I never get
to meet any of the parents. Seems they don't throw parties at home, since

Banty...

If it were me, I'd move it to another day like Memorial Day. If all the major
holidays are 'taken', make up a different excuse. Earth Day, Cinco de Mayo, Tax
Day, May Day, anything. Split it off from your son's birthday. It ends up
being two gatherings, but at least they're not on top of each other.

I guess see how it works out this time..

so many of the parties are just classroom parties where they bring cupcakes

toypup...

They would know that tax day is not DS's birthday and will not get together
for that. If we have two gatherings around DS's birthday, which we won't
this year, that will be something I have agreed to deal with. Other people
might have a problem with it, but then I'm the one throwing the party, so I
don't think it should matter.

and loot bags.

Ericka Kammerer...

Your DS doesn't mind if you spend the party
socializing with the adults and not being involved with
him? Mine would have expected that at their birthday
party, Mom and Dad and any other guests interacted
with *them* (not exclusively, mind you). They also

toypup...

I want to be fully involved in the party, doing the games. That is the
party *I* want to throw. Like I said above, DS wouldn't mind in the least
if I just let them run wild, but that's not what I want to do. If he has
friends there, I want to do the game after game bit. I went to a party like
that once as a kid, and the mom was there for every bit, so if there were
adults there, they got no attention. Since I can't throw that kind of
party, I want to do the entertainer thing.

toto...

What exactly does ds want to do? After all, it's his birthday, not
yours and not the other adult's.

They also

know they're required to visit with their guests--adults
and children both. So, while having an entertainer
would free up some of my time, I still wouldn't expect
to spend all, or even most, of the time socializing
with the adults. Frankly, I'd be disappointed in the

cjra...

Talking to guests is a heck of a lot different from waiting on them
hand and foot. The guests also like to talk to each other. Unless I am
the guest of honour, they're not all there to see *me*. I can talk to
them, but don't have to be engaged with them every second of the party.

presumably if they come for a kid's party, they recognise the kid is
the guest of honour and they are there to see the kid, as well as each
other.

Sorry, I can see it's a problem for you, I'm just having a hard time
wrapping my head around the idea of a group of adults who feel
'neglected' when invited to a kid's party that the hostess isn't at
their side 100% of the time.

adults if they were invited guests at my child's birthday
party and didn't spend some time with him or her.

toypup...

I don't think an entertainer would free me up completely, but I could devote
more time to the adults than I otherwise could.

Best wishes,
Ericka

less of what they might expect at an adult-oriented
party. The food might not be as fancy, and it might
be kind of noisy, and they won't get quite as much
adult-conversation time, especially with the hosts.
That's part and parcel of going to a kids' birthday party.
After all, even though they are adults, the party is
about the birthday kid and so some compromises are
going to have to be made. I don't think it's unreasonable
to expect the adults to cope. Even with the entertainer,
I would expect that you would still spend significant
time with the kids. I would imagine the birthday child
would like to have a significant amount of parental

toypup...

I told him about the Power Ranger and he is gungho. He would be just OTT
dreamland, since he is so into Power Rangers ATM. He is inviting all the
friends he wants and he is very excited about it. We can both have the

bizby40...

This is toypup's party and she can do what she wants to. Stop
hounding her about it.

toypup...

Thanks, Bizby.

Banty...

We're discussing it. That's not 'hounding'.

bizby40...

Cjra specifically is making all these little digs and jibes
(paraphrased) "Oh, I always expect to *help* at parties, I guess it's
a culture thing." "I'm a big fan of free play, but I realize that's
not popular these days." that are thinly veiled put downs.

But by all means, you can cjra can go on planning your dream party if
that's what you want to do. It sounds like toypup has hers all worked
out.

Rosalie B....

I agree about the put-downs - I haven't really read them.

I for one would feel upset if my parents insisted that I talk to them
and ignored my child during his birthday party. That's what I was
trying to figure out - how to resolve that so that her parents don't
feel slighted and so that her ds would have a nice birthday and so
that she doesn't feel pulled in three directions at once. And I think
probably Banty is trying to do the same.

cjra...

Not put downs in the least!

Surely we all learn different groups cultural perspectives only when
they share them. If I'm surprised at how another group does something,
then I think it's useful to state where *I* am coming from. It
certainly helps when others explain their frame of reference.

If you perceive another's person's background and experience as an
insult to you personally, then that's unfortunate.

bizby40...

Geez, there you go again! I'll admit it's a tactic I've used
before -- you say something you know is an insult, you know will be
taken as an insult, but you phrase it just so and then react with
wide-eyed innocence when called on it. I've used this tactic before,
but rarely, and only with people who I've had real reason to dislike.
It seems as though it's a way of life with you.

cjra...

Nope. I don't play the passive aggressive game. Ever. If I want to
throw out an insult. I do.

You have made clear that stating my experience offends you. I had no
intention of that as an insult, but it's up to you if you perceive it
that way. I can do nothing about that.

I am not sure that the plan to hire an entertainer for the children
will completely resolve the question. I'm not sure that this is a
question that can be completely answered to everyone's satisfaction.
And Banty has the advantage of me in this case because her
relationships with her parents and siblings are somewhat like toypups
I think.

grandma Rosalie

cjra...

Let me re-word, with her clarification of back to back games, I can now
see why the whole event is overwhelming for her - between constant
entertainment for kids and constant entertainment for adults, that's a
difficult party to host. I appreciate her explanations, helps me to see
where she's coming from. She is entitled to not explain anything, of
course.

party we want.

attention on the big day. I assume you're not suggesting
you're going to ignore him or anything like that, and
I'm sure an entertainer will make it possible for you
to be much more sociable with everyone during the party,
but even with everything working as well as it possibly
could, the adults are just going to have to deal with
less attention from you than would be the case at an
adult party. It's their job as party guests to fuss
over the guest of honor too ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka

6th grade.

Welches...

Could you ask the teachers what they usually do?
I'm assuming that the logs are separate for each child and you wouldn't just
be leaving a pile for them to look through? I think it sounds fine. If
they're in plain envelopes then the children probably won't realise that
they're invitations so the children won't feel left out.

toypup...

But I think my problem is resolved. My parents don't want 100% attention.
They aren't going to get it. They just don't want to be totally ignored.

toypup...

Why not? They don't want to be completely ignored, which they will be if I
have back to back games they way I would if I threw an all activities party.
I don't want to have kids run wild parties. This is what I came up with
that resolves all my problems. Why do other people have problems with it?

Rosalie B....

I meant for you, not for them. Although maybe I misread this quite
long thread - someone said that as the hostess they would expect to be
with their guests and having conversation with them or maybe it was
that their parents would expect that their child would concentrate on
having conversation with them to the exclusion of the grandson, as if
it were their party rather than the party of the bday child.

toypup...

My parents do not expect me to concentrate on them to the exclusion of DS.

Banty...

I guess I had a different impression myself, based on your description of their
behavior at the last family birthday party for your DS. Didn't you say they
pretty much ignore him, wanting to attend to adult conversation?

grandma Rosalie

cjra...

No problems with that, seriously. It's what you want to do and what
works for you. I agree , however, that an entertainer may not entirely
resolve the situation because I don't think an entertainer would
totally take over the activities, leaving you free to attend to adults.
But if that's what you've worked out with the entertainer, then great.

toypup...

Who said I need the entertainer to leave me completely free? I'm not going
to ignore the kids. I just need a helper so I don't neglect anyone,
including kids and adults.

I don't really see that parents could feel that it was rude. I'm sure there
are times when there are letters for one proportion of the pre-school and

toypup...

I don't know them, but DS does. It's his party. I want him to have friends
over that he knows.

not for the other, and would they feel insulted if they didn't get an admin
letter that was irrelevent to them? If you just clip them there then they
won't know who it's from unless they get one, so they can't feel hard done
by really.
Debbie

cjra...

I can't predict the future, but I can say, they always have a blast at
their parties and are asking for the next one. I don't think they're

toypup...

Perhaps I should say that is how he felt. My parents made a fuss over the
kids when they arrived. They spent some time playing with them. They then
went on to adult conversation. When it was time for cake, they sang "Happy
Birthday." They stayed for the presents, etc. They did focus some
attention on DS, but not for the entire time; and for the half hour when we
had no preschoolers around, it felt like an eternity for DS to have no one
to play with. They had gone on to adult conversation and DS sat at the
table like most kids do at adult parties, but this was his party. That was
why he was saddened, and I was saddened for him.

Adult/child interaction really isn't the same as child/child interaction
anyway. Even with their attention, DS really wanted kids to run around
with. What kid woulnd't? That is why we are having kids over this year.

suffering for lack of organized games at a party. They like playing
with their cousins and friends. Video watching is *not* something done
at a kids party, IME. The TV would never get turned on.

So yeah, to each their own.