Straw poll - who's going to win America's Got Talent?

What are your predictions, who are you voting for if you're participating?

I wouldn't think there are going to be any surprises. Everyone's pretty much

fmomoon...

Oh, no problem. I translate. :)

fmomoon...

Singers Unlimited are wonderful. I use them for impetus to get my kids
excited, too.

James...

If you aren't already aware of it, their entire output is available in a

Karrde...

The value of my opinion is no more or less than the value of anyone else's.

James...

Really?

Karrde...

Really. You value opinions (true opinions, not opinions based on fact)
differently?

Define "Country Music".

fmomoon...

I can go better than that. Define music. See, not so easy, is it?

James...

Not a big trick.

Music is sound organized for the purpose of performance.

Mickey...

Look up augenmusic. Might be worth a giggle.

The Other Mickey

Sanna...

I wonder what it's called when someone whistles Dixie out of their ass.

fmomoon...

Oh, I have a couple of names I could submit. No, it isn't anyone in this
group or used to be in this group, either.

James...

A contestant on next season's America's Got Talent.

fmomoon...

So is music only exists when it is a performance? :) You see what happens

James...

Yes. Printed musical notation is only the blueprint for creating music. An

Mickey...

Actually, calling musical notation a blueprint is gross overstatement.
That suggests a lot more explicit information than I've ever seen on the
page. Notation has never been more than barely sufficient to give a
strong hint.

fmomoon...

Music existed long before musical notation.

instrument is only a tool. It only becomes music when it's manifested as
sound, even if the only person hearing it is the player.

Mickey...

And when I imagine an entire Puccini opera in my head, that isn't music
or when Beethoven composed the Ninth Symphony and Missa Solemnis while
stone deaf, it wasn't music until someone played it. Nonsense.

even if the only person hearing it is the player.

here, right? After all, random sounds, rhythmically organized, but without

James...

I do, but I don't think you do.

pitch might be music by your definition. If a bunch of people sit in my
kitchen and listen to my faucet drip, is that music? Organized....so is
chance music really music? It isn't organized in any formal fashion.

James...

Btw, the listeners may be "organized" after a fashion but the creation of
the sound isn't. Big difference.

James...

Nope, "organized" means it was organized by a volitional consciousness for a
purpose - i.e. the purpose of musical performance. The sound of a faucet

Mickey...

That all very gebraucht of you, but music is created for any number of
reasons, many of which don't fall well into the classification of
performance. For example, imagine you are hearing a group of monks
singing "pange lingua gloriosi." For them it is a devotional, a prayer,
certainly not a performance. It may seem like a performance to you, but
when you leave the room does it cease being music simply because an
audience is no longer there to impose its label.

fmomoon...

Thank you! Well said.

The sound of a faucet

drip could potentially be used as part of a musical performance, but a
random faucet drip is nothing but that.

I take it you're not a musician? Pitch is hardly the only element of music.

fmomoon...

Where exactly do I say that? Although drum solos, for example, isn't my
idea of a fun time had by all, I certainly do think it is music. I do,
however, use rain sticks as accompaniment with my choirs from time to time.

Rhythm, meter, dynamics, phrasing. Ever seen a rhythm egg? Little plastic
egg filled with sand that you shake. What "pitch" is that? But it can add a
distinct flavor to the performance of a song.

Mickey...

Pitch, timbre, time, dynammic, and location are the basic stuff of
music. (Rhythm and meter are just two aspects of time and phrasing is
simply an interelated dynamic modification of rhythm, timbre, pitch, and
dynamics.) This is (part of) what I was taught in conservatory. So, I
might take it that you're not a musician either. (BTW, even "pitchless"
instruments, like your rhythm egg have characteristic pitches.)

Want to start over? I'll be here tomorrow.

fmomoon...

I'm just going to sit back and watch, if you don't mind. Mickey,
interestingly enough, you and I think quite a bit alike on this subject, I
suspect.

The Other Mickey

Of course, Rap and anything Madonna does isn't music.

fmomoon...

Yes, I am a musician, actually. It has been my profession for many years.
The point I was trying to make is that I don't believe anyone has been able
to clearly say what music is. It is so individual and subjective like any
other type of art. Although I agree with you about Rap and pretty much
anything Madonna comes up with, there are many who have some degree of
training who would disagree. Sun Ra, who was a very strange dude, was a
proponent of "chance music" where whatever happened on stage with an
assortment of instruments was music. Key didn't matter, nor did
organization of any other kind. It was music, according to him, of the
moment. I believe it was John Cage, maybe Phillip Glass, who sat at a piano
for something like nine minutes and played nothing and called it music. His
justification was that the music was the atmosphere around the piano, not
the piano itself.

Tzigaane...

John Cage and and it was four minutes and 33 seconds (might be off on
the seconds) and that was, not coincidentally, the name of the piece.
(See, I do remember something from college.)

fmomoon...

I knew the title of the "piece" was the length. I'm sorry, but that is just
a gotcha joke Cage had on the public. Please....

I'm far more of a traditionalist by comparison, I guess. I adore jazz
improv, but the ones who do it well know the structure and then create
around it. My favorite genre of music is musical theatre and I follow most
other genres of music. Your definition of music is esoteric but far too
vague to be helpful, I feel.

Are you an instrumentalist or a singer? What genre do you primarily work
in?

Sanna...

Or you could take it a little further and ask....Define Opinion and/or
taste.

fmomoon...

Ah, someone understands what I'm talking about.

Karrde...

In my opinion, I would define it as aural fecal matter.

fmomoon...

Okay, now without being subjective, can you see any redeeming qualities in
any country music? Remember it is a huge genre with dozens of sub-groups.
Are you going to include blues, which is a form of country music? Are you
going to include folk, which is another form? I don't want to nail you to
the wall, Karrde, but you can't lump it all together. I know specifically
what types of country music I don't like and it usually involves a twang and
lots of sequins, but that is a more visual thing than an aural one.

Karrde...

Country is country, blues is blues, rock is rock, etc. I realize that many
forms of music pull their influences of other forms, but I kind of see these
musical forms as family members. Should my children be judged based on who
I am as a person? Sure, we have similarities, but we are individual people
and should be judged on our own merits. That said, I can say one thing nice
about country music. It keeps the rednecks busy between NASCAR races. ;-)

fmomoon...

Okay, but what about some of the crossover singers? Whether or not you like
country, I think you might admit that someone like Reba McIntyre has a good
voice. From what some NYC friends told me, she was amazing in ANNIE GET
YOUR GUN, which probably doesn't surprise you, made an impression on me. :)
Loretta Lynn? Oh, please I can't stand her. Some of the younger, less
twangy singers aren't bad. Some of the crossover singers are actually
pretty darned good. Yes, it surprised me, too.

Karrde...

I don't listen to either of the ones you mentioned and wouldn't recognize a
song as being sung by them. They may very well have good voices, some may
even sing without much of a twang, but it's the genre that I don't like. I
don't believe in "crossover" either. Just because it sells a bit more to
the general public doesn't make it any less country.

Back to AI: In spite of her being a "country" singer, even I have to admit
Carrie Underwood can sing well. How about you?

Karrde...

She can, but I lost any respect for her when she sang "Independence Day" on
AI. She mimicked the original singer perfectly. That just tells me that
she's good at doing impressions. No matter how good she may have been after
that, I found myself dismissing her as anything other than a Karaoke singer.

collection titled "Magic Voices".

fmomoon...

No, I just have a few of their CDs. I'll look for that one, though.

seen what the acts can do, don't know how likely it is anyone is going to
sway many people with a final performance, unless someone really screws up.

It's Bianca Ryan for me - pipes, potential, personality.

KennyGee...

The harpoon jamming rednecks...:)

Everyone else?

Patrick...

I agree, Bianca Ryan. I've already expressed my opinions down below, but I
want to know something; whatever happened to Cid the kid?

James...

Good question. Maybe she just never made it on for the semi-finals? Or the
powers that be for some reason didn't want her on, or...?

I wasn't that taken with her personally.

Patrick...

I liked her. I think she just dropped out of her own volition.

zob...

Bianca Ryan, nobody else even close.

Karrde...

I saw this for the first time last week. Was doing something on the
computer and had it on in the background. It was the Wildcard round. All I
can say is that each and every performance could have been on one of the
"worst of" audition shows at the beginning of an AI season. Please tell me
there is someone on this show that doesn't suck.

James...

While they've been in the minority, there have been several acts that were
pretty decent, though not all of them were on this "wildcard" show. (and not
all of the finalists were the best acts) Corina Brouder the girl harpist is
better than what she showed here, they fell off the track with their duet.
Though he has minimal real talent, they keep bringing Leonid back because
he's such a walking sideshow.

However, you're clearly in "unpleasable" mode. The magician is excellent,

Karrde...

I'm trying to get Simon's job. I think he's gone rather soft in the last
few years.

Patrick...

Well, if I'm being honest, Kaarde, that was pathetic. You weren't mean
enough, not rude enough, and quite frankly, I was bored with the whole
thing. It was like watching a mouse trying to be a man. Your worst
performance so far, Kaarde.

fmomoon...

Now come on. You missed the whole "that wasn't anything we couldn't have
seen in any roadside caberet." Oh, so many Simon-isms are out there!

it's my understanding he has a running gig in Vegas. He wouldn't be there if
he wasn't filling seats. The quick-changers are good at what they do.

karenftx...

They are playing her on the radio now. I heard this clip on three of the
radio stations I listen to (yes I flip channels in the car also).

I pick her to win if she chooses the right song and I think she will. She
seems to listen well.

fmomoon...

Now, truly, in order to understand this song and why this is so incredible
that an 11-year-old has anything close to the chops necessary for it, you
need to check out the original, Jennifer Holiday. I'll be the first one to
say that I can't watch her because of her exagerated facial expressions and
gigantic mouth, but you should see what she did with the role (tie in to AI

muzician21...

Pity the poor actor who had to kiss her in that scene every night. Can
you imagine that maw coming at you?

is that this is the role that Jennifer Hudson is playing in the movie)

Major ChrisB...

hey the cryin man was in that clip.

how come I dont know this song yet am a huge fan and follower of

fmomoon...

I just can't watch her. I believe she is fine for stage, where you can sit
way back, but on television or on film....ack!

musicals....

You can also see Frenchie Davis (AI2) in the role. She can't act worth a
darn, but she has magnificent vocal moments:

Tamayra Gray (AI1) in a little snip:

And Tamayra Gray in a clip from "Romeo and Juliet" in which this song is
mysteriously spliced in. Wait for it, because it is the second song with
Mary J. Blidge singing some very strange song. Gray sounds pretty good but,
sorry, out of context this song makes no sense.

This was fun.

Karrde...

Yeah. I've heard her. She's okay, but not my cup of tea. Not a flawless
performance by any stretch, but pretty good for her age. However, it seem
like a lot of too-young kids can sing really well, but then kind of lose
their edge as they mature. LeAnn Rimes was like this. There's nobody
better than her on the show?

-Calliope-...

I'm not a faithful viewer of the show... the only other two possibles were
the Millers and Celtic Spring. Both have big problems in that they're

James...

I don't see what the big deal is with the Millers. The kid can play passable
harmonica, but can't sing, which makes him about as unique as sand. There
are trainloads of harmonica players. Do harmonica players who do nothing
else become "superstars" in this day and age?

-Calliope-...

That clip I posted has him singing and pretty darn well at that. I would
still put Bianca Ryan above him, but not by a whole heck of a lot.

James...

Watched it. .shrug, to each their own I suppose. To me he seems like a lot
of male country and rock singers today, more stage personality than real
singing chops.

I could be wrong, but I don't think LD is going to be another Michael
Buble'.

family acts where one or some of them are anchors around the necks of the
more talented ones. The Millers really should be a solor act for LD
Miller seen here in a practice video.

20got%20talent

I think he's awesome, but cried when the judge told him to dump his older
brother- he'll also 11 y/o, btw- but this video seems to be recent, and
he's singing along, so I wonder if he took the judges advice to heart.

Major ChrisB...

he sang along initially and was told his voice was awful and to stop
singing....

-Calliope-...

That was directed to the older brother... LD, the harmonica player was told
to dump his brother, who was deemed an awful singer and a mediocre guitar
player.

James...

I believe on their original appearance, LD sang and was told his singing
wasn't helping his cause.

-Calliope-...

The appearance I saw, Piers told LD if he dumped his brother and sang his
own songs, he'd win the million, hands down. If it's true that they also
told him the above, then he's talking out of both sides of his mouth.

Major ChrisB...

The original audition they performed and Piers told the kid to play and stop
singing as his voice was awful. The in the semi-final round Piers said the
kid was a great harmonica player but that his brother was mediocre at best
and he needed join a real band or get his own backing band.

And then there is Celtic Spring, an Irish Step dancing & fiddling family..
which included their Mom, Dad and little brother. As Piers said, they
really need to dump those three to really be stand outs. But they were

Patrick...

I personally don't see why they're pimping the rapping granny. I just don't
see it. And, like you, I don't see what the big hoopla is about the
Millers.

I like "All that" as well as the other male group in the competetition that
sings without instruments(can't remember their name). I really wanted the
magician to make it. I really thought he was good. And if he had made it,

-Calliope-...

I was so disappointed that he didn't get picked. (finally got hooked
enough to watch a repeat on Bravo channel)

he would be my favorite. As it is, I'm gonna have to go with Bianca.

insistant that they were a family act and that was that. They weren't
picked by the judges, but by fan call in votes.

This video isn't very good, as it's just a capture of someone's
television, and the sound quality doesn't come through very well, but..
it's the only one I found...

The actual performance doesn't start until 1:30 into the video and ends at
3:20 into it.. the rest of the time is them arguing with the judges and
some of them crying over what they have to say.

These are the only three I've seen in the few shows I've seen that are
worth anything. And they all have problems.

Major ChrisB...

I totally agree. All of the young singers have massive tuning problems and
arn't clean in their vocal techniques. They havn't had the training or
performance experience to know how to fix these things yet and all they can
really do at this point is hit the high note in the chorus or a power
ballad... All 3 or 4 of the girls who have progressed through the rounds
with their vocals need to go away, get some professional training and
performance experience and then try again next year....that being said while
it is a "talent" show I dont think singers should be on it...leave that for
American Idol or whatever that kids version they did a few years ago was.

muzician21...

I thought a good suggestion was to have two winners - musical and
non-musical.

fmomoon...

Now *that* is the smartest thing you've said! Anyone who has been around

muzician21...

Gee thanks...

Uh...hey, waitaminnit...

fmomoon...

Anim8rFSK...

And then they'll have a problem defining 'musical'

The harpist is musical, but what about the clog dancers (or whatever the
term is)? Is that music or dancing?

The acapella singing group is certainly musical. The rapping Granny
certainly isn't.

What about Snapfingers?

this group for long knows that, for me, it always comes down to the voice
and the music. I acknowledge that style and presence (physical and
personality) play a part in this game, but I don't care who is the most
marketable, I care who is the best musician and has the best instrument!

LMF...

I really like the acapella boy band, At Last.

Sandi...

If they would only lose the obnoxious mouth-bass, or whatever that
drummy-bassy noise is called, they'd be a whole lot better.

fmomoon...

Biana Ryan
followed up by
Celtic Spring