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Saying Goodbye to Michigan J. Frog
Sun, 17 Sep 2006 20:53:14 -0500
rec.arts.tv
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weberm...
Anim8rFSK...
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Um, but, Buffy and Angel were in there. As was Charmed.
videonovels...
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What part of "paid a fee to use" did you not comprehend? C;mon
Brad.... learn to read. ;-) WB paid a fee to TNT and FX for the
rights to reair Buffy and Angel, and use their images. Ditto the brief
David Levy...
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Do you just make this stuff up as you go along?
videonovels...
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.
That was an extremely arrogant and rude response. You ought to know by
now I don't just "make stuff up".
I read it in TV Guide.
David Levy...
(copies from book) "In an ironic twist, the WB no longer has the
rights to air these pilots and must negotiate with various cable
channels who currently own the rerun rights to Dawson's Creek,
Felicity, Angel, and Buffy."
William George Ferguson...
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And if you had read more, you would have seen that none of the cable
channels involved charged the WB a fee, any more than Fox and Sony did. The
deal to broadcast the four pilots was that the WB would pay any required
videonovels...
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.
Source? That's not in my copy of the TV Guide. What's your source
that "WB did not pay any fees"?
William George Ferguson...
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Garth Ancier (the final President of the WB) in the Variety article on June
30th, announcing the Sunday network finale. He said the studios and
current license holder cable channels had all been very cooperative, and
had all waived their fees, with the proviso that the WB assume the payment
of all required residuals. The WB agreed to show promos for the broadcasts
of the four series on their respective cable channels and promos for the
dvd sets for the studios without any charge. Here's a direct quote from
the Variety article:
"Solution: All the studios involved will get a free on-air promo of the
DVD collections of their respective skeins."
"Beyond that, Sony Pictures TV (which produced "Dawson's Creek"),
Touchstone/Imagine ("Felicity") and 20th Century Fox TV ("Buffy" and
"Angel") waived the usual license fee; the WB was required only to pay the
necessary residuals."
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Also what's YOUR explanation for why Roswell actors did not appear?
William George Ferguson...
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A separate question that. Did they show Taj Mowry (The Smart Guy)? It ran
longer than Roswell. Did they show Carmen Electra (Hyperion Bay)? How
about Julie Bowen (Three)? In its 11 years, the WB had an awful lot of
programs, and it didn't show any cast members from several of them.
Ian J. Ball...
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"Roswell" was one of the shows that The WB did those special 'faceshot'
promos for. (HP and "Three", OTOH, both ran less than a season, and
didn't have special 'headshot promos' done, so their omission is hardly
surprising...)
To me, the omission of "Roswell" actors was significant - either The
WB's net goons 'blackballed' the show from their retrospective, or FOX
Studios (understandably) told The WB to 'stick it' when they asked FOX's
permission to show images of the "Roswell" actors.
Now, it would have been *more* significant if "Charmed" had been
entirely omitted. But "Roswell's" omission is glaring enough, in my
book...
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In its 'Previously on Buffy' opening tease for Buffy's 100th episode, why
did it just show clips from 94 of the previous episodes, why not all 99?
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residual fees to actors and such, and that the WB would broadcast promos
for the DVDs (for the studios) and the current syndicated runs (for the
cable channels) during the Sunday night broadcast.
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videonovels...
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.
The cable channels don't just have the rerun rights to Dawson,
Felicity, et cetera. They also own the rights to the Actors' Images.
WB would be violating contract to display Buffy without the permission
of FX, or Angel without the permission of TNT, and WB could open
themselves to getting sued in a court of law.
And that's why we did NOT see Roswell actors..... Sci-Fi channel did
not grant permission to use their images. This should be Self-Evident
to anyone who uses their brain.
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David Levy...
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Ah, okay. You consulted a magazine that makes stuff up.
David Levy...
videonovels...
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Well at least I HAVE a source. Where's *your* source to back your
claim that WB paid no fees to TNT, FX, et cetera?
David Levy...
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1. The series in question are owned by Twentieth Century Fox. FX and
TNT possess U.S. weekday transmission rights, not distribution rights.
Twentieth Century Fox is entitled to license the program to other
outlets for weekend airings.
2. The WB Network paid no license fees to the studio. It paid only
the required residuals. In exchange for the one-off broadcast rights,
it agreed to provide on-air promotion for the shows' DVDs. (The same
deal was made with Sony for the "Dawson's Creek" pilot and with Disney
for the "Felicity" pilot.)
3. Footage of the actors from old WB promos belong to the network, not
to the studios that produced the series.
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appearance of the Charmed actors.
David Levy...
Brad Ferguson...
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I can read just fine. I'd be interested in reading some citation that
The WB had to pay another outlet to use images from its own promos,
using footage that was not from the shows but from the "warehouse
shots" that had the lighted WB in the background.
As for learning to read: You messed up the cites. I wasn't the one who
brought up Buffy, Angel and Charmed.
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WB did NOT pay a fee to Sci-Fi who currently owns the rights to
Roswell, so we saw none of them.
Jorabi...
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I'd like to know where you got all this information or if you're
just speculating.
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David Levy...
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Again, the distribution rights belong to Twentieth Century Fox. In
this case, however, the Sci-Fi channel possesses the exclusive U.S.
transmission rights (meaning that Twentieth Century Fox is not
contractually permitted to license the series to another outlet).
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It's really quite simple-- everything revolves around money. TNT, FX,
SFC are not about to share their contractually-owned images with WB
without getting some money out of the deal.
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Brad Ferguson...
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I notice that there were some (e.g., Sarah Michelle Gellar) for whom
they used photos from another source. I think the common thread was
that none of the shows was currently running, or wouldn't be making the
transition. I can't otherwise explain the omission of Smallville, for
one.
Anim8rFSK...
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Smallville got it's own freestanding goodbye to the Frog, complete with
padded bra jokes; not sure who that was aimed at *koff*lanalang*koff*
I later noticed a group shot without names that seemed to include
Allyson Hannigan, but wasn't the cast of Buffy.
videonovels...
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WB was reusing a lot of their promos from previous years. That was one
of those "The WB Family" promos from circa 2000, featuring actors from
all the various series.
Jorabi...
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They filmed lengthy promos every summer since the network started,
so they would still have footage to show of every actor. So it
must have been by choice, not contract, as to whom they included.
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I don't think The WB necessarily would have been blocked from using
archival footage from its own promos, but I've been fooled before.
Anim8rFSK...
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Was there anybody from Dawson's Creek in there, or did they cover that
with Dawson driving and mentioning Katie Holmes?
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The WB closes out with the pilots of these memorable shows:
5 PM - Felicity
6 PM - Angel
7 PM - Buffy, The Vampire Slayer
9 PM - Dawson's Creek
Wow, whodda thunk that James Van Der Beek and Joshua Jackson would
NOT be the "break out" stars we'd be talking about today.
Ar Q...
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What happened to James Van Der Beek. His movie "Varsity Blues" surprised
every analyst with 30+ millions opening. But no follow up?
Anim8rFSK...
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He's got half a dozen credits on the IMDb since then, 3 this year.
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Anim8rFSK...
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I'd never watched Felicty before. So she's a stalker? Not sure how
weberm...
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Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.
Did you know J.J. Abrams produced and wrote for that show?
Anim8rFSK...
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I saw his name. Wondered how he forged a career out of it.
Milhouse Van Houten...
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Wow, and here I thought "Felicity" was practically a classic of the genre, a
lot more than a pretty face. I hadn't seen it since it ended its run, but
last night's struck all the right notes for me, and it was clear that JJ was
going places. If it was airing this fall on CW, I'd watch it again, though
Jorabi...
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Ditto. My all-time favorite WB show.
Anim8rFSK...
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Maybe it got better? I never watched it (I watched on towards the end
'cause it had the LOVELINE guys on it and had no idea what was going on
with the regular cast). Just saying that this pilot wouldn't get me to
watch the next ep.
videonovels...
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Felicity didn't get better. It had some originality but then, like
Abrahms other show Alias, it ran-out of steam. Felicity became just
another teen soap, no better than Beverly Hills 90210.
And it showed in the dropping ratings. People say the ratings dropped
because Felicity cut her hair, but I think it was due to the plummeting
storytelling (again like Alias).
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I'd not be looking forward to the hair-cutting episode.
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Ubiquitous...
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I'm still scratching my head over that one.
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That first Dawson's Creek was pretty bad too.
Ubiquitous...
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Yeah, how'd that one make it?
Anim8rFSK...
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I've got no idea. Probably the theme song. That ain't on the DVDs.
Rob Jensen...
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I do. There's a reason I refer to the show as Joey's Creek. Two
words: Katie Holmes.
(And five more: Before Tom Cruise Destroyed Her.)
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Rob Jensen...
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It's on every episode of the the s1 and 2 sets. It wasn't until s3
that Sony got cheap and refused to pay for the rights to the theme
song, subbing in the international theme song.
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:-)
I was explaining to Mom who was what and such and realized I know WAY
too much about a show I've never managed to sit through an entire
episode of.
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videonovels...
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.
FOX rejected it; WB took it because they needed a teen show.
And Felicity, I enjoyed the first season... I had just graduated
college, and watching the show was sort-of like nostalgia.
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this got to a second episode, other than that there's some cute girls in
it.
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Jorabi...
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Trying to think of ANY breakout star from the WB. Is Biel
the biggest?
Daniel Damouth...
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I don't think so. Sarah Michelle Gellar has starred in several
blockbuster movies, and is going strong.
-Dan Damouth
Anim8rFSK...
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As much as I like SMG
Several blockbuster movies?
Can you name ANY blockbuster movie she starred in?
Bart Van Hemelen...
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The Grudge
1st Weekend: #1 $39,129,000
Domestic Box Office: $110,176,000
Scooby-Doo 2
1st Weekend: #1 $29,438,000
Domestic Box Office: $84,185,000
Scooby-Doo
1st Weekend: #1 $54,155,000
Domestic Box Office: $153,294,164
Cruel Intentions
Domestic Box Office : $38,201,000
Daniel Damouth...
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Plus "Scream 2" ($100M+ US BO) and "I Know What You Did Last Summer"
($72M US BO), both of which finished in the top 10 movies of the
year.
-Dan Damouth
Anim8rFSK...
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Okay, if we define 'blockbuster' as 'grossed over $100m domestic' then I
guess The Grudge counts, as does amazingly Scooby Doo, and by the skin
of it's teeth, Scream 2. I suppose I could carp about if she in fact
'starred' in two of these, or if '3' counts as several, but I'll concede
the point. :-)
Glad her career is going better than I thought!
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Rob Jensen...
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Sarah Michelle Gellar is by *far* the biggest breakout star from the
WB.
Jorabi...
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You're joking, right? Biel is in big-budget flicks all the
time, but SMG never really made it to that league. I didn't
count all the WB stars that are in 'B' flicks.
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(slaps the shape of an "L" on your forehead)
et472...
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But couldn't that simly be that she has had such success that her
"early days" have been dwarfed?
Yes, I gather that Buffy show had quite the following, but for
the rest of us who never saw it, we simply know hwer as a capable movie
actress.
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-- Rob
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weberm...
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And Katie. Well, maybe for the wrong reasons.
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P.S. I actually got a tear in my eye during the closing "Thank
You" piece with the lights going down on MJ Frog. WB has made
up a respectable piece of my viewing hours for 11 years.
Anim8rFSK...
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When did the Frog air? I DVR'd the whole thing and I'd like to see that
before I delete. TIA.
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altec3220...
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They certainly chose the best of the image campaign songs to promote
the final broadcast. And the network goes silent.
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et472...
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That's what that was about. When I noticed they were listed
for the "local" (ie in Vermont) station, I thought they were
adding those shows as reruns. Though it did seem significant
that the listing mentioned "pilot".
Sadly, the only one of the bunch that I wanted to see was not
run (or is airing at some odd time that I've not found). I
would have liked to see "Felicity" again.
Anim8rFSK...
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Felicity aired first.
et472...
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The Vermont station is a Fox station, and they air the WB programming
out of prime time. Years ago, they'd do it before the Fox programming,
but then they moved it to 10pm. There might have even been a time
when they split it, with some before prime time and the rest later.
So they aired "Angel" at 6pm, then 3 hours of Fox, then "Buffy" at
10pm, and "Dawson's Creek" at midnight. There was some sort of
rodeo program on at 5pm.
Hence, if they aired "Felicity" it's hidden away somewhere.
Anim8rFSK...
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ack. Here it was one 5 hours block: Felicity, Angel, Buffy, Dawson.
Rob Jensen...
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Daytime Emmy, which means absolutely nothing.
-- Rob
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Still think they should have aired Buffy before Angel. At least they
aired both parts of Buffy.
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Ubiquitous...
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It was the first. You didn't miss much.
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