yoko

One can draw connections between Yoko and jazz or folk or new age - and
who knows what else. I don't deny that you can make connections. I
deny Yoko's 1980 claim that she had been doing punk rock many years
earlier.

Sean Carroll...

He's not the only source saying the B-52's were influenced by her,
though. Hell, they covered 'Don't Worry, Kyoko'.

As for the B-52's-punk issue ... maybe it's more accurate to say that
Yoko influenced New Wave, and New Wave influenced punk. I'm not sure
what all the direct connections are--I'm not that well acquainted with

fattuchus...

You found 10 Yoko fans in only 30 years? WoW! :-)

Dale Houstman...

I must admit that - forced to consider this question - I have met [that
is in person] perhaps 2, and both were seriously "challenged"
individuals. One said he liked her because it was his wont to be
contrarian, and - in fact - it seemed he didn't really like music at
all, but only had any opinion of it formed by transient
political/cultural considerations. The other - as it turned out during a
dialogue - seemed to like her simply because she was Lennon's "one true
love" and they could not speak to the music at all, but merely repeat ad
nauseum her admiration for the woman.

fattuchus...

I agree with your last point that Yoko was admired among certain
avant-garde artists (although I don't think we are talking about a
large number of people). Yes, the general public did not and generally
does not like her "art."

However I do not agree with your observation that the general public
"generally doesn't accept anything that's ot easily digestible without
thinking . . . ." I believe there's lots of "public" out there that
enjoys thinking . . . the masses are NOT asses.

fattuchus...

I forgot to mention that I read an interview with Yoko where she said
something to the effect of "At first I didn't like money; then I
learned to like it."

The one question this interview did not touch on was "when" but I
believe it referred to her marriage to John.

fattuchus...

I never claimed they did. Indeed, if everyone here had the same
opinion, this place would be boring.

the history of either genre. The point is that numerous people, with no
connections to one another or to Yoko, have linked her influence to both
genres, directly or indirectly. I doubt she actually 'started' either
genre. In some cases the relationship might be less direct influence and
more 'she was just ahead of her time'. One can easily argue about one or
another specific aspect of what exactly her influence was.

But to claim categorically that there was *no* influence and *no*
connection in any sense would be something only a dogmatic full of
hatred could assert with absolute certainty and contempt for anyone who
thinks otherwise. (I'm not talking about you.)

i like yoko ono. she was and still is a very headstrong woman. her music

Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer...

If you think of all the Beatle wives, Yoko is the most dynamic
regardless of her critics.

BlackMonk...

How would you know that, since you know little about either Punk or Yoko's

terra...

No, of course not. Someone knows, but that doesnt't mean they are amongst
the very few actually here addressing it.

F Parella...

Fair enough, I guess. Let me just mention that, in the 70s, I had a
lot of friends who were really into punk, and who would go to the

BlackMonk...

Fine. You're wrong, though. People who know more than you about Yoko and
about Punk rock say otherwise.

f_parrella...

Funny that they all kept mum about it until after Yoko's PR blitz of
1980.

BlackMonk...

Agreeing with an interview is a blitz?

f_parrella...

What??? Uh...no.

Funny that you dismiss what Lenny Kaye, Robin Crutchfield, Lester Bangs,
etc, all said.

f_parrella...

It depends on what these individuals have actually said. If these
people really claimed that they saw Yoko doing punk rock in 1962, then
no. I don't buy it.

f_parrella...

Speaking of the "above individuals," isn't it time you produced some
real statements of theirs? Instead of just repeating their names over
and over as though you were praying to them or something?

Let's have some actual quotations from Lester Kaye, Robin Crutchfield,
and Lester Bangs concerning Yoko Ono's punk rock music.

Unless you've been making it all up.

BlackMonk...

I've given quotes from Bangs and Crutchfield, Lenny Kaye described Yoko as
the "Japanese Patti Smith."

f_parrella...

No, you have not given quotes, and your whole attitude in this thread
stinks of evasion. Let us see, for real, what Lester Kaye, Robin

BlackMonk...

Liar. Do you see the "" marks above? Those are called quotation marks. They
mean that the writing in between them is a direct quote.

and your whole attitude in this thread

BlackMonk...

Why haven't you answered any of my questions?

Let us see, for real, what Lester Kaye, Robin

Crutchfield, and Lester Bangs have said about Yoko's punk rock music.

BlackMonk...

That's twice you've called him "Lester Kaye." Are you really incapable of

F Parella...

Um, your previous one?

BlackMonk...

Wrong.

I hope it eventually dawns on you that I'm not interested.

BlackMonk...

Wallow in your own ignorance, then.

Just don't pretend to know something about Punk. Or music for that matter.

poisoned rose...

Heh. Isn't Lester Kaye the fat guy from the "Guys & Dolls" film?
Either that, or he was the guy who invented Chicken Nuggets. I
forget which.

poisoned rose...

I'm afraid that reference went over my head.

Seems to me like a lot of this silly argument comes down to people
arguing "actually SOUNDS like punk music" vs. "punk in ATTITUDE,"
while both sides willfully refuse to acknowledge the contrasting
interpretations of the issue.

poisoned rose...

I'm not so good at mentally recalling specific Yoko tracks...I may
pull out my CDs and check the songs you cited in that previous post.

poisoned rose...

Correct. But who does? ;)

(I wonder if anyone understood my chicken-nuggets joke besides
you.....)

repeating a name that you read seconds ago.

You've repeated their names enough. Now tell me what they have
actually said about Yoko's punk rock.

BlackMonk...

I've already told you. Read back in the thread. I'll even help you. I
paraphrased what Lester Bangs said and put Robin Crutchfield's words in a
paragraph of their own, which I attributed to him.

What makes you think you know anything about Punk Rock anyway?

Or have you been lying?

Now answer my questions.

Do you know who these people are?
What makes you think you're an authority on who is or isn't punk?
What do you know about No Wave?
What have you heard by Yoko Ono? Be specific. Saying "A few albums" isn't
good enough.
What is your definition of punk?
Why do you think everyone who says that Yoko Ono was an early punk is a fan
of hers? I don't think Bangs was. At least not of all her music. Come to
think of it, I know several people who'd describe her music as proto-punk,
but who have no use for anything she recorded after 1972.

But when it comes to this subject, they're all AMAZINGLY more qualified than
you are.

Tell me, how much of New York's No Wave scene have you heard?

various clubs in Central Square, Cambridge, to see the original punk
acts - and I never heard *a single word* about Yoko influencing any of
it in any way whatsoever. I read a lot of articles and interviews
about punk in the 70s, and never came across a single word suggesting
that Yoko had worked in that genre. I've also read a lot about John
and Yoko over the years - and, before Yoko herself claimed to have done
punk in 1980, I never came across anyone else claiming she had.

IMO, there's a *reason* for all this. It is Yoko's "music." Her fans
can follow her in applying whatever labels to the "music" she wants,
but none of that will alter what it actually *sounds like*. And as
you've agreed with me, whatever her "music" is (perhaps new age) it is
far afield from punk.

terra...

Well, I know less about punk than any of the participants here. And I doubt
everyone who defends Yoko or suggests others thought she was punk are not
necessarily fans.

Her music is....something unto itself. Though I did like her Double Fantasy
stuff and Walking On Thin Ice. At least those were accessible to melody.

music?

F Parella...

You mean they're not the same thing? LOL!

BlackMonk...

Since you also know little about Punk or Yoko's music, what qualifies you to
make that judgement?

sounds funny to americans but japanese rock sounds funny in general. and

Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer...

Yes, punk is experimental music. Historically John & Yoko were both
experimenter's with their "long taping sessions." Basher's should go back
and listen to Don't Worry Kyoko (Mummy's Only Looking for Her Hand in the
Snow), for a 1971 song it's amazingly "punk-ish." Need more convincing,

Dr. Strangemonde...

References like "experimental" and ESPECIALLY "long taping sessions"
don't exactly call the Ramones to mind! Actually, if it was, say, late
1978 and I was in charge of arranging for Yoko to make a guest
appearance during a big all-day punk rock festival, I would suggest
that she do "Midsummer New York". I think that would go over like
gangbusters -- it spotlights her aggressive side, doesn't require
"pretty" singing, and since it's got a rockabilly edge, either X or the
Blasters would make for an excellent backup band.

To this day, bootleg recordings of the tune would be in high demand,
and in answer to the reaction she received from the frenzied punk rock
audience, she and John would've no doubt declared 1979 to be the year
of "Gob-ism".

- Dr Strangemonde

see "The term punk is used to describe the associated subculture,
involving youthful aggression, specific clothing styles, ideologies, and
a DIY (do it yourself) attitude.
attitude" speaks for itself.
Personally, I love her art and sound because of it's eclecticism. "2.a

Lookingglass...

When I think of Yoko's music, 'eclectic' is not a word that comes to mind.
It seems she has few influences other than her own.

BlackMonk...

Have you heard AIU?

Ironically, she and Paul McCartney share a fondness for both piano-based
ballads and pre-rock pop music. Also, both of them seem to dabble in genres
for the sake of doing so.

Lookingglass...

No.

I can't speak to what she is fond of, I am only speaking about HER music.

BlackMonk...

Let me make my previous statement more clear, both she and Paul McCartney
share a fondness for performing piano based ballads and songs influenced by
pre-rock pop music.

What are you basing your opinion of her music upon?

Lookingglass...

...having heard some of it. Enough to know that it does not engage me.

BlackMonk...

And the difference between that and disliking her music is...?

I thought that perhaps someone like yourself who DOES seem to have an

BlackMonk...

That's just silly.

My reasons for not going into what you should listen for in Yoko's music
have nothing to do with her music and everything to do with you.

I told you what album you should listen to. Approximately Infinite Universe.
If you listen to it and you "get it," fine. If not, nothing I say is going
to make you appreciate it more.

We are here afterall

BlackMonk...

Sure, always assume it's someone else's fault.

Don't consider the possibility that you DID say something foolish, or that
you just might be ignorant of something.

And you STILL haven't answered my question.

BlackMonk...

We're not talking about whether or not it engages you, we're talking about
your judgement that it isn't eclectic and shows little influence other than
her own. For you to make that kind of judgement, you would need to be
familiar with a substantial portion of her work.

Otherwise, it would be like me hearing "Love Me Do" and concluding that The
Beatles always did simple, skiffle-based love songs.

dancin' dave (...a soap impression of his wife...)

dancin' dave (...tuned to A, naturally...)

johnny b. love...

You're right. "Eclectic" was the wrong word. How about "odd"?

fishandchips...

how about a cat, caught in a fan belt

dancin' dave (...I I me me mine...)

tendency in architecture and the decorative arts to mix various
historical styles with modern elements with the aim of combining the
virtues of many styles or increasing allusive content.
a result of her artistry which John, as well her fans, adore and
appreciate. Your comment about Yoko "the grandmother of punk women" is
eloquent, I agree.

i like it because of that too. yoko is the grandmother of punk women in
rock. a pioneeress. sure she was a splinter in the breakup of the
greatest band ever, but it was many splinters that broke them up, not
just her. her songs on double fantasy, and milk and honey are great. i
consider myself a fan, not because she was married to a beatle, but
because i like her style.

Cyberiade.it Anonymous Remailer...

Absolutely...We love you Yoko!

chippandfish...

Tony.....as a fellow half Italian American.........stick with the
Sunday sauce...ciao

johnny b. love...

dear god please let this thread die.