technically... what's a "middle eight" ?

technically... what's a "middle eight" ?

blackburst...

When I was playing music in the 60s, it was called a "release".

Jeff...

The Beatles except for George Harrison thought it was the bridge
section..but when he said "bridge" to Eric Clapton,
Eric thought George said "Badge" so that's why cream has a song called
"Badge" LOL

steve...

Not so.

The "Bridge/Badge" thing refers to the time when Eric was writing a song
for Cream and George was around. George wrote down, at the appropriate
point "Bridge" and Eric read it as "Badge".

No other Beatles were involved in any of the accounts I've read.

Sean Carroll...

Wasn't that because George had written it down on a paper with the
lyrics or something, and Clapton misread his handwriting?

Dale Houstman...

Literally it's the eight bars (usually in a song's middle) that is
different from the verse and chorus. As the Beatles (and now many
others) use it, it could be any length. In my songs I just call it "the
third thing".

Sixties Gen...

I am not disputing your definition of a "middle eight". It is correct,
but rightly or wrongly, don't many people consider the "middle eight"
to be instruments only without singing?

Dale Houstman...

This may be so, (I don't see "many people" much these days!) but my
understanding was that it was "the third thing" with or without music.
It's all personal usage of course - I call "the third" (or often "the
fourth") thing without music simply a "break" or a "solo" usually
depending upon its length.

And I call the wind Maria...

Dimitrios Paskoudniakis...

They shouldn't. The middle eight has no such constraint to be a capella at
all.

The first noteworthy Beatles middle eight is in "From Me To You" ("I've got
arms that long to hold you..."). Paul always cites the Gm7 chord (on
"arms") as a progression in the Lennon/McCartney songwriting craftsmanship.

BlackMonk...

Technically, it's often the second thing. For instance, "I Want To Hold Your
Hand" doesn't have a chorus section, just a tag line at the end of the
verse.

Dale Houstman...

Right: most of my own songs seem to have verse/chorus/third thing, but
certainly one doesn't need a chorus.

BlackMonk...

Or a bridge. "She Loves You" doesn't have one. I think Walter Everett said
that Magical Mystery Tour was one of the few Beatles songs with both, though
I haven't gone though the catalog to confirm that.

Ray Davies said the great think about writing pop and rock songs is that
while there are some things that people want to hear and expect naturally
("hard-wired" into us was the phrase he used, I think) there's no format
that we have to use. One of my favorites of my own songs uses an AABBC
format.

Incidently, if you're a writer, search out Ray Davies' Sold On Song
appearance. That's where he said the above, and while he doesn't go too far
in depth, it's still Ray Davies talking about songwriting, which has to be
worth hearing.

Dale Houstman...

Thanks, I will.

Often when I write a song, I end up with some strange combinations of
verses, choruses, bridge, etc. I have one that ened up being verse,
chotus, alternate version of verse, a two-line "something," an alternate
version of the chorus, and two other "things" of varying lines. It was a
real treat to record! Sounds nice though...

BlackMonk...

I've got a couple like that, though when I have songs like that, they often
evolve into a more traditional structure after a while. The fun part is
giving the parts some coherence so it doesn't sound like a bunch of seperate
pieces forced together.

xxx...

Also, the part usually occurs in the middle part of a song, after one or
usually more repetitions of the verse and chorus/hook, and is often eight
bars or measures (of four beats each, usually) in length, hence the
nomenclature. It very often ends on the dominant or fifth chord of the key
regardless of any modulations or changes in tonality internally. Lastly, a
frequently used Beatle 'trick' most likely instigated by George Martin is to
use the latter part of it as the intro to the song, since it is different
from the other parts but sets them up so well with its dominant ending.
Good examples of this are Michelle and IWTHYH.

Sean Carroll...

All of your fingers except the pinkies.

Or the thumbs, if you hold your hands palm up.

Bernie Woodham...

How about all the toes except for the little piggies?

Sean Carroll...

Can you see the little piggies stirring up the dirt?
And for all the little piggies, life is getting worse ...

(Don't hurt me ... someone will answer your question for real ... just
tryin' to have some fun here!)

DC...

Eight bars of something that's neither the verse nor the chorus.

LidsvilleNine...

That's the "bridge" section which is different sounding than the verses
or repeated chorus. It is almost always eight measures (bars) long (8
times 4 beats in rock or blues).

"Everybody's greeeee -- eeeen - Coz I'm the one who..." therre's a

John Gutglueck...

I've seen another explanation, probably apocryphal but pretty cool.
The principal chords of the song are Bm, Am, D, G, and Em, and it's
said that "Badge" was concocted from the letters that name the roots of
these chords. Only problem is that this leaves out of account the C

poisoned rose...

Huh! Never occured to me that B-A-D-G-E could be read as a chord
progression.

chord in the bridge (or is it a middle-eight?) that really makes the
song.

rforman61...

That's pretty cool but it doesn't make sense to me. The chords of the
song (the ones you name are all in there somewhere but not in that
order to spell out the title)
are:

verse: ( Am7 D Em ) x2
C Am7 Bm7 Am9 (or CMaj7/A)

Then the badge, oops the bridge
just repeats
D C G D
ad infinitum

...so the Bm just appears briefly, the G doesn't appear 'til much later
and they never come close to spelling badge, Anyway, the badge/bridge
story has certainly been told millions of times, I've never heard the
"chord acronym" theory but it's still neat.

richforman

steve...

Dunno if it's true, but it's neat.

Perhaps we have a whole new artform here! Songs made up from words that
only contain the first eight letters of the alphabet. Wow!

Shades of Gadsby!

abe slaney...

The account I read was told by George Harrison, I believe in a 1977
Crawdaddy interview, and he said that Eric Clapton was trying to read
his handwriting upside down from across the table and thought that
"bridge" was "badge".

classic middle 8.

"You and I have memories.." - "Two of Us" seems to have a 6-measure
bridge, but the whole LIB album is unconventional and pieced together.

Anyone remember the Smothers Brothers song "Soap"?