Cats and Milk

I know I've posted about this before but just curious. I keep hearing that
milk is bad for cats, yet I grew up hearing about "cats and cream" (or
milk). I know lots of people buy special "milk" for cats; goats milk and
soy milk. When Persia first came to me I asked the vet about giving Persia
milk. He said no problem, just not in large quantities. It's the one
"treat" I can give her.

I drink low-fat milk. When Persia sees the milk jug come out of the
refrigerator she starts yowling until I pour a couple of tablespoonfuls in a
bowl for her. She's never had any adverse reactions to milk.

How about your cats?

Yowie...

Shmogg loves it and begs for it, but it gives him the runs something aweful.

When we get the lactose-free milk for Joel I give Shmogg as much as he
wants, but if its the normal milk I have, I give him a splash on the rare
occasion, but not a whole bowlful as he'd like.

Ted Davis...

Most of mine love half and half (milk/cream) - I think they stop
consuming it because they get enough cream before they get too much
milk. I'v never had a problem with that, but I have seen some get the
runs from plain milk.

Pat...

A few of them seem to enjoy a small amount of goat milk now and then, but I
have noticed that it takes the whole group a full 24-hour day to lap up a
single cupful, and another serving in the same week will be ignored. So I've
had to freeze the remains of a can of evaporated goat milk to avoid having
it spoil. I've tried giving reconstituted powdered goat milk and they will
not touch it no matter how much or how little water I use. On rare occasions
when I've been at a restaurant and was served half-and-half in individual
plastic serving containers, I've slipped those into my pocket and given to
the cats later, and they seem to enjoy it, but it does give them very loose
stools, which goat milk does not. I have not looked for lactose-free human
milk, as I didn't know it existed. Once I found "cat milk" on the shelf at a
discount grocery and bought it. The cats drank it but did not seem
especially enthused about it.

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)...

Of course, when I was growing up, people just ASSUMED you
fed cats milk. (along with table left-overs, largely - who
could afford to buy special food made just for cats?)
Considering all the thousands of generations of barn cats
who have lined up at milking time, hoping for a squirt or
two direct from the source, I wouldn't hesitate to feed it
to a cat who liked it, and had not exhibited a bad reaction.

Frankly, I am astonished by the number of HUMANS who seem to
be allergic to milk, nowadays. I don't deny the allergy
exists, but WHY, when milk used to be the "normal" beverage
for children (and even many adults) at mealtime? What has
changed in the human gene-pool, to make what was once a rare
condition so commonplace?

Katrina...

Actually, lactose TOLERANCE is NOT the norm for most adult humans.

jmcquown...

Can you site some sources for this? I've been drinking milk all my adult
life and I'm almost 47 years old. Never had a problem. I love milk. Have
no problem drinking milk. Or eating cheese. Or any dairy products. I find
it hard to believe that "once weaned" people (or animals) can no longer
tolerate milk. That just doesn't make any sense. John (who is 60) loves a

Dewi...

kilikini...

My cats won't touch eggs, but my rats love it!

My mother, who is Malaysian, can't tolerate dairy either as it makes
her feel queasy. I heard or read somewhere that Asians are not as prone
to osteoporosis. So I've pretty much assumed that Asians require less

djmaizels...

I have read from various places over the last few years that soy milk is
very good indeed at preventing osteoporosis, or maintaining good bone
density at least - so perhaps the increased role of soy in the Eastern
diet has something to do with that? just a thought..

calcium. Having said that, my mum's grandmother developed
osteoporosis, however I think that was largely due to her being very
old.

CatNipped...

Both my children were allergic to milk as babies - they had to drink soy
milk - but they could both drink milk as children and into adulthood. I
don't know if they just became tolerant from exposure or if their allergies
actually went away (I know you can develop allergies with age that you
didn't have as a child, but don't know that the reverse is true).

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)...

I think it well may be - how often doctors, in telling
parents of a child's allergy, add "but he/she may outgrow it"!

Jo Firey...

While kids may "outgrow" allergies, what they don't tell you is odds are
extremely high they will come back by the time they are thirty or so. Also
true of outgrowing asthma.

Winnie...

I think allergies can go away. I was tested postivie for feather
allergy My allergist told me not
to use down duvet when I sleep, but could keep my down coat since it
was only worn outdoors for a short period. I remember my eyes tearing
up when I was near a pack of pigeons. But my last allergy test many
years later was negative for feather.

Milk allergy and lactose intolerance are 2 different things. Milk
allergy is properly with the milk protein, whereas intolerance is to
the milk sugar lactose.

good cold glass of milk when we have breakfast, as do I. So, please back up
this statement with some factual data. Won't really matter, since I know
everyone in my family and my LLL and Persia! (who is an adult cat) love and
can and do drink milk :)

Virtually all mammals (including humans) lose the ability to digest
milk once they're weaned (it's a metabolic waste to continue to produce
enzymes that are no longer necessary). Only a relatively few human
populations (mostly from northern Europe, but a few from parts of
Africa) who have a mutation which allows them to continue to digest
milk into adulthood. This mutation arose in a number of human
populations at various times, but only in those groups that herded
cattle did it give a selective advantage by allowing those individuals
who had the mutation to consume a food source that made everyone
without the mutation sick. In cats, the same thing applies. Most get
sick from milk. Those cats who are part of a barn population where milk
is a regular treat are more likely to carry the mutation than those who
are part of a barn population where cattle are raised for meat because
those who can't tolerate it get weeded out through natural selection.
What you're percieving as a change in the human gene pool is the effect
of a *mixing* of different gene pools- those from areas where milk is
not part of the normal adult diet are migrating to areas where it is.
This migration contributes to gene flow and spreads the non-mutated
gene back into populations which *do* normally consume milk. Isn't
evolution neat?

jmcquown...

I don't know, Evelyn. I am also astonished at the peanut allergies which
sure weren't prevalent when I was a child. Suddenly you can't send kids to
school with peanut butter sandwiches lest some kid go into convulsions. I
don't understand it. PB&J was the lunch of choice in the 1950's and 1960's.
Cheap and so easy even Dad could do it! LOL

Now you get kids going into anaphylactic shock if they so much as breathe
anywhere near a peanut. Makes no sense to me.

The only thing I can think is that we are so desentizing ourselves, what
with things like Purell hand wash, wipes, and antibiotic soaps that our
bodies no longer know how to handle every day "contaminants". Me, I don't
get sick from touching a door knob or if someone sneezes in my general
vicinity. Germs are a matter of course. I'm immune to most of them. If I
were raised in a bubble and let loose into the world I'd probably collapse
within minutes. LOL

I do get occasional sinus and ear infections (the two go hand in hand thanks
to the eustachian tube) but those are bacterial, not viral infections and
cannot be transmitted person to person.

Pat...

I would offer that your infections are not caused by bacteria or virus, but
rather by your consumption of dairy products - along with other gargage like
refined sugar and flour, which combine with dairy residues to create mucus,

jmcquown...

By the way, I don't eat sugar. I don't drink soft drinks and only use flour
as necessary for baking. Yes, I eat baked yeast bread. And you wonder why
I didn't want to meet you when you came to Memphis. Mizz picky picky picky.
Cant't/won't eat anything but at a Vietnamese place in midtown. Excuse me
but the Viet's SHOT my father a few times, so sorry I don't want to eat
their food.

in which those nasty micro-organisms (that get blamed as the "cause" of
infections) are able to thrive.

The fact that you apparently are able to digest dairy products does not
equate to them being healthful for human consumption. Much information

The usual response to any suggestion of milk being unhealthful among people
who've been brainwashed by the media (subservient to the interests of the
dairy industry) is "How then will we get enough calcium?"

Well, how does a cow obtain calcium? And how does a free-ranging chicken
having its eggs constantly stolen by its owner get enough calcium to produce
shell after shell if its diet consists only of bugs scrounged in the dirt
plus some scattered grains?

In fact the foods highest in calcium are sesame seeds, sea vegetables and
hard green leafy vegetables (not spinach or lettuce, but kale, collards,
broccoli, watercress, bok choy, mustard, turnip & radish greens). If calcium
is the key to strong bones and teeth, why have Oriental people who

Pat...

Oh, thanks for the information. I was curious. I never did buy the story you

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)...

To which I'd be inclined to reply (if I weren't too polite)
"You're full of s--t!" I never had an ear infection in my

Dewi...

Did you get some more rats. Last I read you had the one.
My rats sometimes eat boiled eggs, but never tried raw eggs on them.

Pat...

I bet you're also too polite to kick it out of me - but that's exactly what
you'd love to do, isn't it? Or maybe a better choice would be to gather a
gang to stone me. That's the preferred punishment for heresy against the
sacred (in this case, the sacred cow).

life, and my sinus infections are pretty much a thing of the
past, ever since my blood pressure forced me to abandon
those "decongestant" nasal sprays. As far as ill-effects
from dairy products are concerned, warm milk with a sprinkle
of pepper in it is still my first-choice remedy for an upset
stomach, and nothing sooths a sore throat or helps quiet a
cough like warm milk topped with a pat of melted butter!

Of course my ancestry is Northern European, and someone more
knowledgeable pointed out that we comprise an ethnic group
in whom lactose intolerance is very rare. However, I've had
friends from nearly ALL ethnic groups common to the U.S.,
and have encountered very, very few people who had problems
digesting milk.

The only one I ever knew personally was the daughter of a
friend whose ancestry was Danish (northern European,
right?). Although the father was from the Middle East, I
always thought the child's allergy was more connected to the
fact her mother was an X-Ray technician (back before they
were aware of the danger repeated exposure posed to
reproductive systems, and did not require the kind of
shielding they do now) than to her father's national origin.

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)...

Excuse me! "Brain-washed"???? You are allergic to milk, or
simply don't like it, fine - that's certainly your
privilege. Denying its proven nutrional value just because
you don't drink it seems a case of "overkill". (It's true
there are many other good sources of calcium, but its
calcium content is not the main reason people consume milk.)

Even vegetarians frequently use milk and eggs, because both
are excellent sources of protein, but no creature dies to
provide either as food. (Lactating cows MUST be milked, and
chickens lay eggs whether they've been fertilized or not, so
no incipient chicks are involved unless you insist upon

Rhonda...

Milk is a very odd food, don't you think? I drink it now on cereal but
didn't drink it for years.

There is something very strange about taking the breast milk of another
species and drinking it -- keeping a cow in a constant state of
lactation so humans can have her breast milk. It's an odd thing, really.
The cow is not allowed to stop lactating, I believe they breed them once
a year to keep the cow's milk going, then of course milk her every day.
That's the part that bothers me most.

I heard once that over half of humans are lactose intolerant in some
degree. Our digestive systems are set up for our human mother's milk,
not milk intended for calves.

There is a lot of calcium in it, but it does cause an increase in
mucous, which can cause increases in bacterial infections (bacteria
grown better in mucous.) Singers don't drink milk before they sing
because they'd be clearing their throats a lot.

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)...

That's news to me, and I was an aspiring opera singer for
most of my life! It's true my "beverage of choice" before a
performance was usually hot herb tea, but that was to calm
my nerves, not to avoid mucous. Also, alcohol can CERTAINLY
produce mucous, yet how many singers throughout history have
had a pre-performance glass of wine (or shot of whisky) to
calm their "performance" nerves?

...True, some overdid it - Bjorling with no apparent
detriment to his career. However, Robert McFerrin
("Bobbie's" father) only sang with the Met for one season
because the management decided his drinking made him too

Rhonda...

I notice the increased throat-clearing myself after drinking milk, and
I'm no singer!

I don't drink very often, maybe once every few years, so I can't comment
on that. I didn't realize singers were drinking right before to calm
their nerves (well, other than rock singers who might be calming their
nerves most of the time...) That would not be a calmer for me.

unreliable.

Okay, that's my input for anyone who cares.

"fertile" eggs.)

Rhonda...

I don't understand this. If you had moral reservations at eating at a
Vietnamese restaurant and don't like to eat with someone who is a picky
eater, why didn't you just be honest about it and decline to get
together? Instead it sounds like you left her sitting at the restaurant
waiting for you and later gave her a different excuse than what you are
saying now.

This probably would have been a good subject to keep buried in the past.
It appears to have been thrown into an unrelated post just to make her
feel bad. It's unfair to bring up a problem that happened 3-4 years ago
because you're having a disagreement now.

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)...

Shoudn't you be addressing those remarks to Pat, not Jill?

sriddles...

It's not that milk is bad for cats per se; it's just that some cats are
lactose-intolerant. Not all cats for sure; you already know Persia
isn't. All of mine have had a turn finishing up the Cheerio milk in the
morning and it doesn't cause any digestive upset in any of them. Heavy
cream is a treat they absolute love, too, or Half & Half, whichever I
buy. We used to have barn cats as a kid, and boy did they know when
milking time was. They gathered in a little circle around my grandpa,
who would fill their bowl up first. IIRC, milk certainly isn't
something that's necessary in their diet though. Just a treat thing I
suppose.

Joy...

I've only had one cat that was particularly interested in milk. Herbie
loved it, and I used to give him a little every evening. He wasn't fussy,
either. He'd drink anything from non-fat to cream. He usually got non-fat
or low fat. Skeeter didn't like milk, but she couldn't stand the idea of
Herbie getting something that she didn't. She made a big fuss unless I gave
here milk too. I'd give her about a teaspoon, and watch her stiffen and
practically shudder as she drank it. If she could have held her nose, she
would have. You could tell she hated it, but she wasn't about to leave a
drop for Herbie.

Katrina...

According to the statistics, 86% of Northern Europeans are lactose
*tolerant*, but only 36% of Southern Europeans are. 98% of Southeast
Asians are intolerant (note that milk and milk products are not
generally part of Asian cooking), so only 2% of Southeast Asians can
tolerate milk... but that 2% could certainly enjoy a "nice, cold glass
of milk" even when 98% of their relatives can't. If you go on down the
list, you'll see that lactose tolerance is highest among Northern
Europeans. Unless you want to argue that the entire world is made up
of Northern Europeans, it's clear that most humans are lactose
intolerant.

I'm guessing that you and John are from Northern European background,
but even if not, all populations have some individuals who tolerate
milk. If you ARE of Northern European stock, you fall into one of the
populations which are more likely than not to be lactose tolerant. Most
Americans (and the dominant *American* culture) is founded in that
Northern European gene pool. This is also why the Dairy industry is so
strong here- it's part of the cultural baggage brought over by British,
Scandanavian and Germanic settlers. The problem is that giving milk as
part of a subsidized meal to inner city children (who are more likely
to NOT tolerate it because of differing genetic backgrounds) is
actually making those kids sick.

It would appear to be Pat who brought theu subject up,
not Jill (who merely responded).

gave me at the time, about being afraid to drive. Good to know that it
wasn't merely hatred of me that kept you from meeting for lunch. Hatred of

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)...

Well, judging from what you've shown of yourself on this
thread, it may not have been Jill's reason, but had I been
in her place, it would surely have been mine! It's fun to
meet people we only know through the internet, but NOT if
all we've seen of them there shrieks "incompatible"! (Life
is too short to waste it like that.)

jmcquown...

Actually, I *am* afraid to drive. It sometimes takes a lot to get me out of
the house. I'm not agorophobic but close to it. But there was just
something hinky about the insistance at a particular type of food and it had
to be in Midtown Memphis. I suggested all sorts of things but with Pat it
absolutely HAD to be Vietnamese. I suppose it's because they don't drink
milk. LOL

Pat...

Jil knew next to nothing of me at the time. And I would offer that only one
or two in this group know more than a tiny bit about me, no matter how many
believe otherwise.

an entire nation is so much more plausible. I guess you came to love
Vietnamese food (as you stated you did at the time) *before* they shot at
your dad. Too bad you have to miss out on it now, then. The Japanese shot at
my dad, but I can't quite bring myself to avoid their cuisine, or their cars
or their electronics. Geez, what the heck is wrong with my moral code??

traditionally consume very little in the way of dairy products (but *do*
consume seaweed quite regularly) always had the lowest instances of

Pat...

My recollection is that initially several emails were exchanged (this was
back in 2003) to discuss meeting for lunch when I got to Memphis. These
included photos so we could recognize one another at the restaurant. When I
arrived in Memphis I called you to decide when and where to meet the next
day, and you said that since it was my treat I should choose the place. I
asked if you liked Oriental cuisine because it's a favorite of mine and in
fact one of the reasons I like visiting Memphis was the many Oriental
restaurants, and I looked forward to the chance to have some good Thai food,
or Vietnamese, or even Chinese or East Indian. I mentioned that I had tried
the East Indian place near where you live on a prior visit and found it not
very good as well as overpriced. Neither of us knew which if any of the Thai
places were good. Then you said just pick the place and I'll meet you there.
So I told you about a good Vietnamese buffet and you agreed to meet me there
the next day. But you never showed. Later I got an email saying you had been
too afraid to drive.

osteoporosis.

John F. Eldredge...

Mucus is actually formed by the human body, and serves a variety of
protective functions. In the lungs and respiratory passages, it
serves as a dust trap; the mucus and the trapped dust eventually gets
routed out through the digestive system. Mucus secreted by the walls
of the stomach helps keep the stomach from digesting itself. In the
intestines, mucus serves as a lubricant to help keep everything moving
along.

Pat...

You're talking about normal, healthy mucus, in normal, healthy amounts. I ws

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)...

And you seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that
mucus generated by food is neither healthy nor normal!
(Upon what scientific data do you base that assumption?)

referring to the icky, stinky kind that fills up the sinuses and other spots
when the body is so overloaded with excess waste that it can't dispose of it
through the usual channels.

Adrian A...

It's the milk sugar, lactose, that is bad for some cats, giving them the
runs. The lactose is removed for milk commercially produced for cats.

Dewi...

kilikini...

We got Mickey a buddy we call Phideaux (Fido). He's white with grey spots
and the two snuggle and play furiously. It's cute to watch and the cats are
transfixed! They sniff noses through the cage - absolutely harmless, thank
goodness!

Dewi...

Oh that great! :D

Tish...

It can be either. A traditional form of feta cheese is made from
sheep's milk, as well as a cheddar-like kind of cheese. It's nice -
not as strongly flavoured as goat's milk cheeses.

The lactose free milk produced for human is actually cheaper than the
cat milk. I use to buy this for my critters when they were kittens.

Marina...

Caliban loves milk. Whenever I take the carton out of the fridge, he
comes running for his treat, and I pour some on a plate for him. I drink
fat-free milk, so a little treat now and then should be alright. He
hasn't had any adverse reactions to it, but I hear that many cats are

jmcquown...

Same reaction here, Marina. If Persia sees the milk jug she starts
vocalizing. She only gets a Tablespoonful but she laps it up. Since I like
to drink milk (low fat or skim = fat free) I sometimes have to make sure
she's not around when I pour myself a glass. She goes nuts if she sees me
take it out of the refrigerator!

lactose-intolerant.

Jo Firey...

I just figure they don't need it, and I know it can make kittens sick
sometimes. I've never had a cat that seemed all that interested anyway.
But if I'm sharing quarters with a cat, I don't want to risk something that
"might" give them the runs.