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leaving a dog crated all day



15 Mar 2006 13:55:43 -0800 rec.pets.dogs.behavior
previous


billod...
I have a dog that is house trained but I have to leave him alone for 12
hours a day a 3 days a week. He's 5. He was doing good being left in
a two room area but had a couple accidents and now I crate him. He is

Janet B...
How many times a week do YOU go 12 hours without needing to eliminate?

lonely, understandably and I was thinking about getting another dog to
keep him company during the day. Any experience with this? The dog

Janet B...
Of course he's lonely, but then you'll have TWO dogs who need someone
to come let them out during the day. Right now, you need to do that
for ONE. Hire a petsitter, ask a neighbor, arrange your schedule -
something. Leaving for 12 hours is grossly unfair.

was my daughters and she went away to school this past fall. I have

Janet B...
A good reason why ADULTS should be the dog owners.

someone that walks him 3 days a week but he is still crated for 3 days,
12 hours a day. I try to take him to the dog park when I get home but

Janet B...
??? Can't you hire the walker for those 3 days too? Or a different
walker?

I can't always do it and he gets so disappointed. Any advice would be
appreciated.

sighthounds & siberians...
Hire a dog-walker. 12 hours is too long to expect him to go without

AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard wouldn't approve of someWON
handling HIS dogs HOWET in pubic <{) : ~ ( >


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
Yeah, but not unusual or inapupriate to EXXXPECT UNLESS
the dog is SICK or anXXXIHOWES <{) ; ~ ) >

relieving himself, which no doubt is why he had "a couple accidents".

AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
THAT'S INSANE.

Crating him simply ensures that he'll try harder not to have an
accident, so it solves your problem, but not his. If you won't hire a

AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
Oh? You mean LIKE THIS?:

"We had the doors in the house replaced this past winter, and the
workmen left all sorts of debris around, including screws, which Music
tried to eat. The house is being sided now and I read the riot act to
the company owner about cleaning up the yard every day when they're
finished. Music won't crate either, and I have lots of experience
crating dogs. He doesn't have separation anxiety, but if he's crated,
he will shred whatever's in there with him and salivate like crazy,
frothing up his water bowl, so he does have some sort of crate
anxiety. As long as people put things out of his reach, he's fine; no
housebreaking problems whatsoever. The problem, as I think I
mentioned, is that you never know what he'll find attractive.
Greenies are out of the question for him, unfortunately." Mustang Sally

BWEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!!

dog-walker, rehome the dog.

AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
Oh? You mean INSTEAD of TRAININ HIM racetrack silly?

LIKE THIS:

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.

The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.

Sally Hennessey

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey


Mustang Sally

AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
HOWEDY racetrack silly,


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
The Amazing Puppy Wizard LIVES to WATCH YOUR DEAD DOGS DIE
from STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE and PSYCHOGENIC
SEIZURES aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME, racetrack silly,
you dog abusing mental case <{); ~ ) >

From: Sally Hennessey
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 23:10:40 -0400

Subject: Re: Aggressive dogs at class and off-lead
sessions in puppy classes


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
Probably a couple of hours. He is what GH folks call a spook
(combination of genetics and the way GH pups are raised), and
unfortunately the worst part of his seizures is that he is so
afraid of them.

He tries to run away, which only gets him to a worse place
in the house to have them, and as soon as he starts to come
out of them he tries to get up and run.

Judging from his reactions, he is at least partially blind
when he first comes out of the seizures. It's very different
from our first epileptic GH, who (I know this will sound
ridiculous) didn't seem to be upset by his seizures.

Last night, he was "back" within 20 minutes or so, but still
wobbly and kind or wired - - you know the routine. He really
has a strange seizure pattern, or non-pattern, and I know his
vet doesn't think the seizures are going to stay this far apart.

But hey, he's just a vet!

Sally Hennessey


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
Naaah. But THIS WILL, INDEEDY:

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."

CANCERS and SEIZURES (which MOST of your own FEARFUL
DEATHLY ILL DOGS GOT) are STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE
DIS-EASES aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME <{); ~ ) >

THAT'S HOWE COME YOUR DOG HAD HER SEIZURE ON YOUR KITCHEN
TABLE. SHE WAS AFRAID YOU'D CATCH AND PUNISH HER <{); ~ ) >

Death Producing Ulcers:
"Emotional Influences On Health & Behavior"
Dr. George Von Hilsheimer

Emotional Influences On Behavior

Illness is directly related to depression and lack of
adjustment, particularly to a new environment (Parens,
McConville & Kaplan, 1966).

A WIDE RANGE of PSYCHOSOMATIC or
CORTICOVISCERAL DIS-EASES was surveyed
by Wittkower (1965) to demonstrate the enormous
importance of emotional factors in general health.

Interview findings of emotional material (recently
experienced hopelessness) pryor to biological
examinations correctly identified 11 out of 19 with
cervical cancer, and 25 of 32 who were cancer free
even though psychological tests failed to discriminate
these groups (Schmale & Iker, 1966)

150 lung cancer patients showed significantly
constricted expression of emotions. The had fewer
childhood behavior problems, and lower neuroticism
score than their cancer free controls. Heavy cigarette
smokers who DO NOT INHALE are more apt to have LUNG
CANCER. They, too, show LOWER neuroticism scores.
Among heavy cigarette smokers poor emotional
expression is as highly related to cancer as urban
residence and is more important than a chronic cough
or an air polluted environment (Kissen, 1966).

A ten year observation of all the women who developed
cancer in an isolated pupulation of 2,550 showed that
they tended to be unstable or sub stable personalities
characterized by melancholy and extraversion,
especially marked with those of an undecided body
build (Hagll, 1966). Personality dynamics effect both
the development of cancer and it's SITE. Cancer
may result from what appears to be a failure to grow--
somatically, behaviorally and psychologically
(Grinker, 1966).

In 109 cases leukemia and lymphoma were associated
with a number of losses or separations and with
feelings of sadness, anxiety, anger or hopelessness.
The PRIMARY FACTOR seems to be the shame and
hopelessness of running out of psychological resources
(Green, 1966). Cervical cancer patients are less
emotionally responsive, more isolative, and less
frequently diagnosed as having clinical neuroses than
cancer free patients. There is NO CLEAR DIFFERENCE in
their FEELINGS and ATTITUDES toward coitus (Rotkin,
Qunk, & Couchman, 1965).

Schmidt (1966) surveyed nearly 100 studies of
behaviorally induced DIS-EASE in animals CONFIRMING
and EXTENDING the DATA on PEOPLE. Behaviorally
induced DIS-EASES tend to fall into two groups;

(1) Hysteriform problems, which INCLUDE HYSTERICAL
SEIZURES and FORMS of AGGRESSION as well as
collective panic and epilepsies;

(2) organic modifications, including functional
difficulties and lesions affecting gastro intestinal,
cardio vascular, respiratory, sexual, endocrine, skin,
urinary, and neuro muscular systems.

It is INTERESTING, and SLIGHTLY HORRIFYING,
to note that the ONLY SCIENTIFIC RELEVANCE of
the standard six hour school day that I have been able
to detect in research is that Sawrey and Weisz quite
by accident found that six hours on and six hour off of
"EXECUTIVE BEHAVIOR" in monkeys was the ONLY
TIME STRUCTURE that INDUCED DEATH PRODUCING
ULCERS.

All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
LET'S NOT FORGET racetrack silly GOT A VERY LONG
POSTED CASE HISTORY OF HURTING INTIMIDATING and
MURDERING DOGS FOR PLEASURE and PROFIT.

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
Of curse not. You jerked and choked shocked and intimidated IT.


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
OF CURSE NOT. YOU'D PREFER TO HURT INIMIDATE AND MURDER YOUR DOGS.

LIKE THIS:

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
THAT'S HOWE COME YOUR DOGS ARE DYIN ON YOU.
THAT'S HOWE COME YOU MURDER SOME OF YOUR DOGS:

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
OF CURSE NOT!

ON accHOWENT of EVERY THING YOU BELEIVE WOULD
BE PROVEN DEAD WRONG, racetrack silly:

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.

The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.

Sally Hennessey

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!=AD=AD!

SEE?


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
DOGS DON'T LIKE TO BE MOCKED, racetrack silly.


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
THAT'S INSANE, HOWEver many EXXXPERTS YOU PAY TELL YOU SO:

"A Completely New Model Of Learning"?
Naaah. Pavlov ToldUs So 100 Years Ago.

Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At UofOH
Oxford, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can Easily
And Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender Loving Care Is At
The Root Of The Scientific Management Of Doggies. <{) ; ~ ) >

HOWEDY People!

Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At
UofOH Oxford That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive
Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC.
Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of TheScientific
Management Of Doggies.

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:41:01 -0500
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."

Subject: "time-out"

Dan, my own firm hatred of punishment has
recently been intensified by meeting The
Puppy Wizard, Jerry Howe, whose work with
dogs is marvelous.

There is a literature on harms caused by time
out, and perhaps you'd like to look at
http://www.dogydoright.com
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

"As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care."

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." To: Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice

Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.

I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.

I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:

whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.

The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).

You see these behaviors in human managed animals,
especially animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving care.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
a completely new model of learning, which is based (in
simplest terms) on the idea that all behavior is the
result of finding a way to relieve emotional tension.

This is true not just for dogs but all animals.

You don't believe in the validity of this
particular model of learning? You don't
think it makes sense?

Fine, I guess.

But it makes total sense to me.

And it made sense to Pavlov, too,
though not many people know this.

"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement."
IOW, emotions, not outside rewards, are
what reinforces any behavior.

Finn once saw a small mouse come out of a hole
atthe base of a tree. Needless to say his prey
instinct kicked in BIG TIME and he chased it
back into the hole. This was 7 years before
he died. Up until the very last time he walked
through that section of the park (an hour before
he went) he checked the base of that tree.

He saw that mouse exactly *once*....he never
saw it again. Don't we all have stories like
that?

Especially those of us with dogs whose
prey drives are pretty intense?

And there are lots of examples that may not
even require the prey drive to be active,
just a strong desire to do something: a dog
who wants to escape from the back yard will
learn how to do it once and never forget it,
a dog who wants to jump on the couch or the
bed doesn't need any repetitions to "reinforce"
or re-learn the behavior.

If something is important to a dog, he'll
learn how to do it. Once he learns it, he
learns it. The trick to getting him to
"unlearn" it, is to give him a more
emotionally satisfying replacement behavior.

With Oscar and the cat, the more satisfying
behavior was relating to me instead of the cat.
(He's a Lab, with a strong need for social
connections, so that was pretty easy.)

I've been experimenting recently with Jerry
Howe's method of using a sound distraction,
then praising the dog, without any physical
contact, for 15 seconds.

My initial reaction to his technique was that
it was silly to keep praising the dog that long.

I mean, Jerry's a nut, right?

But in every case except one, when I've followed
the exercise exactly, I've seen a definite
physiological change take place in the dog -
- yawning or stretching have been the usual
indicators -- and after only a few repetitions,
the dog often relaxes, curls up, and goes to sleep!

I've tried this on barking, counter-surfing,
separation anxiety, even two dogs who live
together and fight constantly. I was pretty
amazed when I saw this little Boston give up
her aggression and start to yawn!

It's too early for me to be convinced that it
will work every single time with every single
dog, or that it will even have a lasting effect
on these dogs, but so far I think that it's
effective at reducing emotional tension, which,
as you know, I believe that all behavior comes
from the dog trying to find a way to reduce
emotional tension. If you give the dog a
replacement behavior that successfully reduces
emotional tension, the first behavior will no
longer be necessary and the dog will stop doing it.


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
RIGHT! You PREFER TO DO THIS:

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
RIGHT! THAT'S HOWE COME WE USE NON PHYSICAL PRAISE.

LIKE THIS:


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
It's moore than a chapter, it's a comprehensive,
total, complete, gestalt method to train all animals
to any level you desire.


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
Excellent.


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
My methods work faster than any others, anywhere at
any price, including the thirty five levels of medical grade
static like stimulation devices and pronged spiked pinch
choke collars our "experts" here love so much.


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
Good. Crates aren't inherently bad, only the way they're
misused.


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
Good. I've got a lot in common with folks who are gentle
and treat animals kindly.


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
You mean the sound distraction and praise techniques.


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
Yes, one of my students Paul B wrote an excellent post
recently I'll include it at the bottom. It'll explain HOWE the
distraction and praise process works from his POV as an
experience handler using my methods.


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
Why? That should be spontaneous and in association
with every glance towards you and every thought.


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
Oh. Patting is O.K., only not in conjunction with a
thought or command, as it will interrupt the thought
process and may lock the dog's thoughts on an
inappropriate idea.


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
It's called positive thigmotaxis, the opposition reflex.
Like if we're walking our dog and want to prevent him
from interacting with another dog, and we pull back
on the collar, that often triggers the dog to go out of
control.

As long as there's contact on the collar, the dog will
continue his original thoughts about interacting with
the passerby. Then because the dog is out of control,
the handler needs to further force restraint, making
communication with the dog's MIND, impossible.


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
Any time your dog is close enough to be patted is
fine to pat him, as long as we're not working with a
command or thought we want him to process.


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
Yes, it's caused quite a stir here. If my methods are as
effective and fast and safe as I claim and my students
confirm, that pretty much means that all of my critics
are DEAD WRONG, and all's that's left for me to
do is shovel some dirt over them over and let 'em push
up daisies.


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=AD=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
You mean LIKE THIS?:


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
Fortunately, I happen to believe he is too.
I took a rescued three year old beagle that
had been kept outside all of its life that didn't
even recognize or respond to its name to
Jerry's home (That ugly cinder block shack???
get real) and in just over one hour of working
with the dog, he was coming on command
(not a quickly as he does now, but still...) and
walking with us on a loose lead.

His "hot/cold" exercise and "come when called"
command and pack exercise WORK!


AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory...
Well, he's been near mine, and done wonders for him.

You don't have to like him. You don't have
to agree with his methods, but as far as I
am concerned, I've never seen any other
training approach that was as fast and easy.

<<<< Rest of original post deleted >>>>
Ron Flanagan
Orlando, Florida


Alison...
You could end up with two dogs that have accidents on the carpet.
The best thing you could do is to hire a dog walker or have a neighbour
call in , then you wouldn't have to leave him in a crate all day. If you
can't arrange this then you really need to make sure he gets a proper walk

Janet B...
Waittttttttt - Alison - YOU are suggesting that the dog can be left
for 12 hours if he gets "proper walks" before and after? Haven't you
been one of the vocal brits that seems to think nobody should even
have a job and a dog at the same time?

in the morning and evening.
Does he have any chew toys to relieve boredom , you can buy him a kong and
full it with a kong filler (paste ) to give him something to do.

Janet B...
Unlikely to occupy him for 12 hours, and nothing to do with his need
to eliminate.

Next time you have to pee - go have some Doritos instead, ok?

Alison


Janet B...
He needs you to provide a reasonable schedule for him. There are a
lot of ways to accomplish that, but it really isn't optional. I DO
have a dog who can go 12 hours no problem. That doesn't mean I leave
her for that long - it's just not healthy.


probe1957...
Take your dog to the shelter and buy a stuffed one.
next