Purely Positive Luring for position

I have a friend whose trainer is teaching her to lure her dog into
position. I swear her trainer is in the "LEAH school of training". But this
trainer is in missouri, not in Orlando..

I have problems with this. I thought that was what the target was for
(target training).
Therefore the dog gets their click, and the treat is a surprise, because
then they don't know what they are working for. I thought the whole purpose
of training to target was to REPLACE the treat luring, and giving the dog a
target to steer them, and concentrate on the job without food distractions.
Then the food becomes the reward.

Am I the only person who has a problem with food luring?

Amy Dahl...

diddy...

Don't use hot dogs .. I used them for tracking, and he developed urinary
crystals, I'm not sure if I logged til that point. But we believe the
urinary crystals came from the high nitrate content. At that point he
worked for kibble only. Still does, except for the occasional venison
treat. .. But at 4 weeks, they were still eating pretty soft foods when I
was starting. By eight weeks their little needle teeth should handle kibble
just fine.

I am not too much of a "purist" when it comes to methods. I think
of training in two distinct stages, the teaching stage where the dog
learns to perform the task, and the practice stage where performing
the task in response to the desired cues becomes habitual. In my
training, all dogs need repetition to establish the response--they need
to do it at the appropriate time without thinking about it (or they would
have too much to think about). So there is rote work, practicing the
response in a variety of situations, however it is initially established.
It's the method of initial establishment where I don't consider myself
a purist. IME dogs can adapt to a mixture of methods.

But what I really want to know is, in as much as you're revealing
something of your preferences here, what is(are) your preferred
method(s) for teaching dogs tricks? My puppies are now eight weeks
old and I'd like to get them going on a few.

I have nearly zero experience with luring, btw.

Amy Dahl

Robin Nuttall...

Hmmmm. Where in Missouri? :)

diddy...

I think the largest nearest city is Springfield

We will often start with some food luring, depending on the dog. But
luring is *very* quickly replaced with reward. An example is the weaves.
We may start a food motivated dog by standing at the end of the channel
with food, then transitioning the food to a target. Soon we transition
to running to the target for a click and a treat placed on the target
after the click, and then fading the target.

diddy...

makes sense

However, you don't always want a behavior where you treat from the hand,
because that creates a dog who looks at you for the treat, which can
cause "fun" things like pole popping and falling off dogwalks.

diddy...

Which is why I'mone of those radical people who object to luring. I can

TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWizard...

Yeah. diddler wouldn't wanna be UNFAIR to her dogs
by CRUELLY luring them into position so she can pinch
an twist their ears to enhance the bond between trainer
and dog, eh lyin "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn <{} ; ~ ) >

steer a dog all day long with a target just as well.

TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWizard...

Kinda like the carrot an the stick, eh lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn?

javagsd...

What's interesting about that is that targets are usually initially
taught by luring - loading the target for the 1st touch or 2, then
quickly fading it to a reward after the touch..

TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWizard...

Oh, well THAT AIN'T GONNA WORK on accHOWENT of
you AIN'T DONE NO CONDITIONING to GENERALIZE the
IDEA that you've "LOADED THE TARGET" on accHOWENT
of the dog havin NEVER BEEN pupperly CONDITIONED to
"LOADING" on accHOWENT of you got NO IDEA HOWE to
install a behavior as a conditional reflex, a la Pavlov.

In order to pupperly condition ANY behavior you'd have to
DO THE EXXXORCIZE, in this case "LOADING THE TARGET",
not 2 or 3 times, but till the behaior is successfully repeated on
each of four consecutive times *(PROOFING) , in four different
environments, to GENERALIZE the IDEA, PRYOR to "FADING"
your REWARDS", e.g. NOT PINCHIN an TWISTIN ITS EARS
an TOES for performing pupperly.

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