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My Husky is driving me crazy!
6 Mar 2006 10:06:23 -0800
rec.pets.dogs.behavior
previous
Yargnits...
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Hi. I'm new to the group. I just joined in hopes to find a solution
to my dog problem.
Handsome Jack Morrison...
History, My wife and I have 2 Siberian Huskies. Father and daughter
about 9 and 7 years of age. Both are "fixed". We also have a 2 year
old daughter that's occupying more and more of our time.
We just got back from a trip overseas and brought the dogs home from
the kennel, which we believe they love being at. We decided that we
didn't want the fur all over the house so we started using the baby
gates to keep them in 1 half of the house. Previously they would sleep
at our bedside. The girl use to put herself slightly under the bed for
what I assume is her personal space.
Since booting them out of the bedroom area we've had nothing but
trouble with her. The family room has their beds for comfy sleeping
and they can go into their crates in the kitchen if they choose. Our
girl has been crawling behind our entertainement center at night which
I think is her way of looking for personal space. The problem is that
she's also chewing my video/electrical cables while back there. I put
up barriers which she tore up to get around. At first I put up another
baby gate so she couldn't get into the family room only to wake up to a
gate being torn down and chewed up. I finally got destruction proof
barriers for the entertainement center and let them back into the
family room. I thought the problem was solved. This weekend I went to
look out our family room's picture window to find that she clawed up
the frame in either an escape attempt or an attempt to get to some
animal in the back yard.
This led me to put her ( and her father ) in her crate overnite. I was
woke up with a thunking sound. It was the girl chewing the metal bars
in the side of her plastic crate. She had broke 3 of them and bent
them back to where she could fit half of her head through. I then put
a muzzle on her and went back to bed. I woke to find the muzzle still
on her but she had managed to rip it up pretty bad. (nylon mesh).
So last night we gave in and let them back into our bedroom and had a
full night sleep. I awoke to wimpers and found the girl lodge
COMPLETELY under our bed. I had to lift the bed up in order for her to
get out. We went about our morning and put the dogs in their crates
for the day like we've always done. As I'm writing this I wonder if
MauiJNP...
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they spend their days in crates? are you home?
Mary Beth...
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Their days AND for awhile there, their NIGHTS too???
And he thinks the gal is going nuts?!?!?!
Well, DUH!
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Janet B...
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while I know there are people who, for a number of reasons, crate dogs
for their entire lives if unsupervised, I just can't fathom that with
only 2 dogs, at 7 and 9 no less.
MauiJNP...
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I don't get it either. Maui (age 21 months) is perfectly capable of being
free when unsupervised. The only time he is confined is when no one is home
shore...
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Have you ever been driven to the end of your rope by a dog?
I mean really, have you ever felt like you don't have any
good options? I hope that if that ever happens to you
you'll make better decisions than to warehouse the dog in a
crate, but it seems to me that thinking about this guy's
problems in the context of Maui isn't going to give you a
very good idea at all of what he's dealing with. That's not
by way of excusing a bad decision, but to say that some
people make *particularly* bad decisions because they've got
*particularly* hard problems and lack the tools to solve
them well.
MauiJNP...
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I know comparing any two dogs is generally not a good idea but I still can't
understand the reasons behind having any dog for 7-9 years and not being
able to trust at least one of them uncrated and unsupervised. I would have
thought that having them for 7-9 years gives you enough time to work
on/override most problems that would arise if they were left unsupervised
and uncrated. That's all I was saying, not trying to blame the OP or
shore...
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The poster changed the dog's environment and created a new,
unfamiliar situation for the dog, the dog became terrified,
and started behaving in a way she never had before. I
believe we create a lot of our own problems with our dogs
and this is a pretty good example of something that on the
surface looked pretty uncomplicated (the dog sheds too much
so keep her out of the bedroom) and snowballed into a fairly
serious problem that the guy simply didn't know how to deal
with. Do you know what you'd do if Maui started tearing
your house apart and you didn't know how to get her to stop?
What if she suddenly decided that she simply hates your
other dog (sorry, can't remember the name) and starts
attacking?
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dismiss his problems or whatever else bad might have been taken from what I
MauiJNP...
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Maui is a boy, Cali's the girl.
I guess if Maui's behavior suddenly changed like you described I'd take him
to the vet to see if something is wrong with him. After he is cleared
healthwise, I'd consult a trainer/behaviorist/dog psychic/anyone else I can
think of AND even if they all had no answers, I would NEVER EVER consider
putting him down, not even for a second. Also, he would NEVER EVER spend
shore...
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I thought about putting Saber down. He was attacking the
other dogs seemingly at random (it's rarely actually random,
but I couldn't tell what was triggering it). He'd attack
them in the house, he'd attack them out in the yard, he'd
attack them when we were out for walks, and so on. I was
White Monkey...
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Well, her dog was loose (I mean leashed and not in a crate) and
sitting/lying in the aisle, but she had to make sure he was out of the way
of the food trolleys and stuff. I think they plan your seat location around
this. I haven't heard from her in a while and her e-mail seems not to be
working, so I can't get more info for you from her just now.
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fostering him at the time and when I talked to various
Siberian rescue groups about moving him into a different
foster situation they were all like "Gosh, that's really
terrible, so sorry, hope it works out for you." He made
Duncan absolutely miserable.
I eventually got it straightened out but along the way I was
bitten twice and there were relapses that made it feel as if
the sky was falling in. I work from home and so I'm home
MauiJNP...
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that doesn't sound fun, glad you got it all straightened out.
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pretty much all the time. If I weren't home all the time
you can believe that dog would have been crated when I was
gone, whether it was two hours or 8.
MauiJNP...
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I understand people crating dogs when they are not home, I was questioning
if the OP was home or not when the dogs spent their day in the crate. If
they were home, that's what I was questioning/asking about.
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There are just some situations which are unimaginably tough,
and in which there are no happy choices. This guy with the
destructive husky made a mistake and found himself in one of
those situations. I think it's really hard to imagine unless
you've been there.
MauiJNP...
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his life in a crate, maybe in a room or tethered to me for constant
supervision but NEVER EVER a crate all day and night or put down.
Janet B...
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And if he destoyed that room and you wanted to go to work, the movies,
the grocery store? A crate isn't a horrible thing and is better than
MauiJNP...
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If I wasn't home and he was being destructive, he'd be crated. If I was
home, he wouldn't be confined to a crate all day.
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death for sure. It's not my preference but there may indeed be
reasons why it's necessary when supervision is not available. Crating
all day and all night forever is another story.
MauiJNP...
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that's what I don't understand. its how my sister's dog lives and he is
very well mannered. he's housebroken, not destructive, good with kids, etc
but his total existance is in a crate.
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said.
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sighthounds & siberians...
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Yep. Toy or miniature poodles are hardly comparable to Siberian
Huskies when it comes to destructive potential.
I've felt as though there were no management options with a couple of
dogs, and it's very difficult. (And no, we don't crate any dogs for
7-9 hours a day, and anyone who wants to sleep in the bedroom does.)
Mustang Sally
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but even then he is confined to my bedroom, not a crate. And I only do that
so he doesn't accidently get into something that could hurt him that might
have been overlooked (like a misplaced kid toy he could choke on or
scfundogs...
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You have an excuse for confining your "perfectly capable of being free when
MauiJNP...
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when I am not home!
scfundogs...
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Which is when/why most people crate their dogs during the day.
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also FWIW, I simply asked the OP if they were home when they crate the dogs
all day (AND they never answered that question) and stated that I can't
imagine a 7-9 year old dog needing to be crated all day if someone was home.
scfundogs...
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Maybe I'm weird but I assume that people leave the home for work when they
talk about a ritual of crating the dogs for the day. I guess I also take
breed into consideration. It doesn't surprise me to hear of a need to
confine a pair of Sibes of virtually any age. That doesn't mean I'm not
totally wrong though.
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unsupervised" dog. Someone who doesn't agree with your confinement of a dog
that doesn't need it may well get upset and assume you're just too lazy to
dog-proof your house. It should occur to you that other people have excuses
MauiJNP...
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I don't think there is a such thing as a completely dog proof house. my
scfundogs...
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I'm not questioning you, just pointing out that others could because you
admit your dog doesn't need confining.
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house is as dog proof as it gets, unless, like I said a small toy was
accientally left out or something like that. since I don't want to take
that chance when I am not home, I confine Maui to my room where I know is
very safe and Cali to the crate since she isn't housebroken completely yet.
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for confining their dogs as well.
MauiJNP...
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there is a difference between confining a dog all day vs occasionally when
no one is home.
scfundogs...
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Most people aren't away from home occasionally but rather daily. Before I
started my business I crated my dogs for the workday which was 8-9 hours
total with a 1 hour lunch break. I often had foster dogs so I'd have
several dogs crated. Those fosters often got crated at night too, when I
went to bed and couldn't supervise, for various reasons. It wasn't ideal
but life with work (and kids) makes for more need to manage and less time to
train.
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Alot of people's dogs aren't fully trustworthy when left home alone. Some
people's dogs have anxiety issues. Some people's dogs prefer a small
space/den to wait in. Some people's dogs would fight with each other. I
could go on for ages. And older age is by no means a guarantee of good
behavior or lack of issues.
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something). Cali (age 6 months) is crated occasionally when I am home but
that will end soon when she is completely housebroken. She is still crated
when no one is home. I am not sure when that will end since I don't know if
I plan to leave the two dogs out together when no one is there.
elegy...
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i crate both of my dogs when i'm not home because i have two pit bulls
and i could come home to two dying/dead dogs if i did not do so. my
house is a completely open dealy with no doors (even to the bedroom)
so separating in rooms is not an option.
Janet B...
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Yup - I know there are reasons to need to do it. Do both have to be
crated or is it just easier that way?
elegy...
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right now, both, because she is head dog and i think she'd really
resent second-in-command dog being loose while she's in jail. i'd like
to move somewhere that both dogs can have their own rooms while i'm
gone and hopefully be able to wean her to being loose in her own room,
but that'll have to wait for the $$.
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no, it's not ideal. yes, they both sleep in bed with me.
Janet B...
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And that is where the OP went wrong. Exiling the dogs after 7 and 9
years because he suddenly has hair phobia. It's a lonely existence
for dogs who thrive on being with their pack.
elegy...
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i can't imagine. my dogs would be *heartbroken* if i suddenly kicked
them out for no reason (at least in their minds).
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mushroom is fine to stay home alone loose. he just holds down the
couch. if i take him with me and leave luce, though, she has to be
crated. she's got, i think, a touch of separation anxiety and while
she doesn't destroy my stuff (and she's fine if left in the crate,
though that took awhile for her to learn, too. she broke her first
crate.), she tries to bash her way through windows to follow me, and
that'd be bad.
Janet B...
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Very bad! The foster puppy is still being crated for a number of
reasons, not the least of which that he is 8 months old and some
days.......... He also tends to pee when riled up and we have "dog
tv" here - all glass doors. He's just not quite ready for home alone
with access to the doors yet.
elegy...
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oooh dog tv. my dogs would love that! i'd hate it! lol
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so, yes, i understand crating.
MauiJNP...
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yes, but what you just explained is when you are not home. I was asking the
OP if they are home when the dogs are crated during the day.
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Mary Beth...
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I know, I'm hoping this is a troll.
I can't understand it, either, keeping 7 & 9 yo dogs in crates all day.
To the OP, are you really serious? If so, teach them to be out of the
crates, UNsupervised during the day, at the very least.
Get a good vacuum as Janet said. Keep the dogs in a certain amount of rooms,
but make sure your *bedroom* is one of the main ones!
How do you think you'd feel, being with your pack all night for 7 years,
right beside the bed, only to be banished away from the rest, all of the
sudden?? Out of nowhere, as the gal would see it? She has no idea what's
going on, or why in the heck she's not with *you*, suddenly. I can see why
she would wedge herself under the bed. To make sure you couldn't banish her
again. Everyone, (that I can see, have a few filtered), has given you good
advice.
FercryinoutLOUD, how could you *possibly* think about putting her down just
cuz you're tired of *hair* suddenly???
She's not going nuts, she's going thru an incredibly mind boggling time
right now. Of course she'd act out. I know any of my dogs would.
I gave myself two allergy shots a week for 3 years to become non allergic to
my dogs, at a very high cost to me, financially. Luckily we had the
insurance and could afford it. But to, one day, decide you don't want to
deal with *hair*?? On a Sibe???? C'mon. Why did you initially get this
breed, anyway? Seriously?
Hopefully you are trolling, as I can't imagine anyone putting their dog
down, after all these years, because of fur.
If not, get with it and do *whatever* it takes, training, vaccuming daily,
hiring a cleaner, *whatever*, instead of taking that gal's life away.
IF you do decide you can't do any of the above, and other advice, then call
Sibe rescue. I don't have a number on them, but google it.
Or go to rec.pets.dogs.rescue to see what you can find out.
Putting her down.......
MaryBeth
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the female probably lodged herself under the bed because she was
desperate to not be banned from there again. My female dog likes to
sleep under the bed. She doesn't really fit. She has to "turtle" to
get out sometimes, but she's never panicked about getting under or
out, since it's always available to her. And yeah, she sheds like
wild. And I'm allergic and asthmatic. I deal.
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the girl is working on that hole she started the other night. I'm
guessing no because she doesn't seem to have a problem with being
crated during the day.... but I could be wrong.
I'm writing to get advice because, as sh*ty as it sounds, I'm thinkning
about putting her down over this. It just seems she's gone crazy.
Handsome Jack Morrison...
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I think this post is a good example of why I think that Googloids
are even more of a danger to the U.S. than, say, George "Loony"
Clooney.
PS: Any wagers on whether they'll even be a reply?
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MauiJNP...
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take her to the shelter if you refuse to deal with her, don't kill her.
shore...
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It's a virtual certainty that an older Siberian will be
euthanized at a shelter. Rescue's full, no room at the
inn. It's a terrible, terrible situation.
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sighthounds & siberians...
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Don't do that either. Tons of Siberians that end up in shelters, and
the rescues are always packed.
Mustang Sally
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There were no signs of this behavior previously and we've taking trips
regularly. I can say tho, that she's been acting weird over the last
few months (before the trip). A few times we'd be in the bedroom
getting ready for bed and I'd hear her crying in the kitchen. I walked
in there and looked at her and she seemed happy to see me. I'd tell
her "come-on, let's go to bed" and she'd happily follow me. If she
does have some disorder creeping up I don't want to pawn her off.
Besides, she's our responsibility and she'd go nuts without her dad
around, but you can see I'm at my wits end!
Any advice would be appreciated.
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