Testing potential class students

Something that came up in the Muttley thread (which I wish would just

Janet B...

I will be saddened and relieved as well Paul. One thing that is
certainly not uncommon, is a dog who has had no rules for "x" amount
of their life, is suddenly being given rules that they need to abide
by, and balks at that. Heck, I know human beings who have been
lont-time colleges/grad students who suddenly have to go to work at a
specific time and balk at that too!

Canines are not alone in the "what? you are suddenly telling me what
to do and when to do it? I liked it when *I* ran my life better".

Not to Paul necessarily, but a general comment -

Shelly...

No, it's not okay. You are dealing with inadequate information and a
laughably small sample pool.

Shelly...

So am I. In general, Boxers tend to be dog aggressive. It's the rule,
not the exception.

My application has some very basic questions, what they hope to
accomplish, etc, but week 1 (before dogs) we have a 3 page
questionnaire as well. I will be tweaking both after this incident -
never too much information as far as I'm concerned, but I hate bogging
people down with a ton of paperwork either.

montana wildhack...

I think it might make a difference whether the paperwork is for a class
that is for puppies only or older dogs, or a mixture of the two.

end, Paul is having enough difficulty with this decision, but I do
agree that the hike was a very poor choice). I've never come across
any Basic obedience class that temperament tests dogs before class
starts.

I've been running classes for 16 years, and taking them for over 30.
The first class I took was with my own dog aggressive dog, so it's not
like I haven't had to deal with that stuff from day one.

Shelly...

It's not a bad disposition. It's a common breed trait, you maroon.

Most of my students have had no to little contact with me when they
register for class. I always invite people to come watch class, ask
me questions, etc, but pre-entrance testing? Nope. Unless someone
has a very specific concern, it's never been necessary.

I get a lot of overtly (and clandestine) dog aggressive dogs, yet I've

Shelly...

Fair enough. I didn't get that, exactly, from thread, though.

Shelly...

Duh. I didn't tell him/her otherwise. I'm just baffled at The Pfoley's
train of thought.

Shelly...

They tend to "turn on" in the same way that Pit Bulls do. A Boxer who
is perfectly friendly with other dogs may not be so friendly after it
matures.

never had a situation like this one. Many different breeds, none
judged by their breed, but also not thinking they're all warm and
fuzzy.

With a Basic class, it's assumed the dog (and part of the time, the
people) have had no training to speak of. We provide handouts on
issues mentioned, but also realize we don't live with the dog or
owner, and don't know all that goes on. I've been surprised by things
I've been told the last week of class, that has never been mentioned
before!

Has anyone come across a Basic level class that interviews dogs before
they can enroll? I've seen some that will only take "friendly" dogs

Suja...

Mine didn't, and I think there is a presumption there that if the dog has
problems, the owner would bring it up. I know that our obedience instructor
stayed way past class to address anything from jumping up to dog aggression
and the problems that we encountered with Khan. As far as I know, there was
one dog there who was dog aggressive, and it was pretty clear to just about
everyone that the dog was seriously dog aggressive (American Bulldog, in
case anyone is wondering). Yes, the instructor knew about it ahead of time,
and had figured out a way that would allow the dog to work in the presence
of dogs without triggering him.

elegy...

not for basic, no. all i had to do was show up with shot records, but
the trainer i've worked with worked out of her pet shop and had met
luce beforehand, so she knew going in that i'd be bringing my newly
adopted dog-reactive, dog-aggressive nutcase of a pit bull.

(geez - isn't that simple!), but none that give pre-entry tests.

Lynne...

I'm signing up for a class which offers an initial consultation where
they evaluate my dog and I together before placing us. I'm not sure
how long they will spend with us, though. It is included in the
training class fees, though I don't pay until we are actually starting
whatever class they end up recommending. This is at a kennel/training
facility that is fully staffed. I imagine this is very time consuming,
but as a student, I'm looking forward to the one-on-one with an
instructor. As an instructor, I'd be looking for red flags somehow.

If evaluation are not practical for you and your partner, perhaps some
more in depth questions on the application might be prudent? But you
will have to be specific, since people are dumb. For example, instead
of asking "has your dog displayed any signs of aggression" ask "has
your dog ever bitten anyone" with a space for clarification if the
answer is yes. Maybe some more detailed questions to follow. Ask the
same question in reference to other dogs. Of course some people will
lie...

This is a tough subject, and I imagine a very emotional one for most
people. If I were in a class and someone else's dog viciously attacked
mine, I'd have to be stopped from harming not only the dog, but also
the handler... I have experience with my dog being on the receiving end
of dog aggression, though, and so I have a hair trigger on these issues
now. I feel bad for you as an instructor, because the people in your
class look to you for 'control' when in fact it is they who are
responsible for the control of their dogs, even though you are teaching
them.

pfoley...

========
Before I joined my obedience class a couple of years ago, my trainer asked
me to bring my dog to his house first, so that he could assess the dog. I
am assuming he wanted to see if she would fit in with the rest of the class
that was already ongoing. There was also another potential newcomer to the
group with her young lab at the same time I was there. He told us what we
could expect from the class, and then he did a demo with his two police
trained German Shepherd dogs. It was quite exciting to watch them. He
asked us if we were interested in signing up for the class. I paid him at
that time signed some papers, and that is when he told me I should have one
of those double latch attachments for my dog's collar and prong collar, in
case the prong collar came off. The next time I met him was at the class,
which had about 20 people and dogs in it. He held his lessons in an
elementary school field. It was summer time. In the winter, he held his
classes inside a YMCA building.

montana wildhack...

We were asked to answer some questions before we started a "family dog"
class. That was basic obedience. I don't have the questions anymore,
but I remember we were asked both during the first class (no dogs) and
the second class (with dogs) about any problems, including aggression.

If someone said they had an aggressive dog, the trainer asked more
questions to see what the owners thought "aggression" meant.

shore...

I've been in classes where the instructor took a page from
horse shows and asked that people who had dogs who were "not
good with other dogs" (leaving it up to the owner to
interpret what that means) should tie a red ribbon to their
dog's collar. I've taken classes a number of different
places and have never seen someone do pre-class screening
for dogs with problems.