Potential problem with a dogue de Bordeaux (French Mastiff)

I have a 25 months old mastiff which is afraid of almost everything,
especially big noises. A door which is slammed behind us when I take him out
for a walk will frighten him. A group of youngsters in the street shouting
and singing after a football match will terrify him and he will try to go in
another direction. I have been trying to show him things like trains and
agricultural machines and to get to see other people with him regularly but
it doesn't seem to help much.

I have taken him in at the age of 3 months. He has of course never been
beaten but behaves as if he expected to receive blows and was terrified of
it. Several times, when trying to move him from some place he was not
supposed to be, I made towards him in order to push him away, and he snapped
at me as if he wanted to bite me. He has even threatened me once when I
passed too close to him while he was gnawing a bone. The punishment I use
after such a crime is to lock him inside an old kennel for a few hours
(after forcefully voicing my displeasure). He is perfectly aware he did
something bad because afterwards, he lies down in a submissive position
every time I say a word to him. He is not normally aggressive : he barks at
the people who pass in front of the garden but welcomes happily all
strangers if they come inside, even uninvited!

I don't think it is a case of trying to assert his dominance over me as I
have never had a dog which obeyed orders so quickly before. I can order him
to stand / sit / lie down (and again, and again, during 5 minutes) from 10 m
away. I have even called him back while he was chasing hares at full speed,
each time, he gave up the chase and came back instantly! Actually, he is
incredibly docile 99,9% of the time.

My wife chose him because she liked his brown-reddish colour, he is even
assorted to the house furniture, and, yes, I must admit he doesn't bring
tons of dirt inside as my old shaggy Bouviers used to do. But I swear my
next dog will be another reliable and trusty Bouvier.

Anyway, the dogues de Bordeaux are supposed to mature very slowly and are
not to be considered adults until the age of 3 years, and there is still
time yet. So :

1 - how can I stop this threatening and snapping behaviour before he really

flick...

Seek out professional help for this, please.

starts to bite?

2 - is it possible to teach him that it is not necessary to be afraid of
everything?

flick...

Yes. I helped with a dog like this many years ago, when I was a teenager.
Walked her a whole lot, every day, to see sights and hear sounds she'd never
seen before. For instance, there were several construction sites in the
area. We'd walk to one, and I'd stop when she started showing discomfort
(but not panic), and then stay there a while, and I'd be nonchalant. I'd
put her through some of her obedience while there, to distract her. I'd sit
on the sidewalk and watch the action, and have her sit-stay next to me.
Sometimes I had some dog treats to give her, or shared a sandwich with her.
Did the same thing where there were noisy kids playing in a park, etc.
Walked her to all my friends' houses, so they could pet her.

We'd get closer and closer to these noisy things, as her comfort level
increased, or her panic level decreased. In the meantime, on the way there
and back we'd pass strangers on the street and hear other noises. She was
well obedience-trained when I began this project with her owner, so I would
always have her heel as a stranger was approaching. It helped.

As I recall it now, it took a few months, then she was calm enough so that
at a show, when a big noisy overhead garage-type door was raised near her
while she was in the ring, she didn't bat an eye.

I would work on your dog's obedience, too, so that if he's in a situation
where he isn't comfortable, his overriding concern is obeying you, rather

news orange...

Thank you, I will try that too.

news orange...

Yes, I am definitely grateful to her for the reference. It's not available
from amazon.fr but I can get it from amazon.com. It will hard on the wife
though as it is only available in English.

news orange...

Or taking him to the Big City and walking the streets with him. Yes.
Construction workers don't work on week ends though.

news orange...

He does not bark when in the house or in the garage. However, when he hears
something outside (or the bell), he runs outside if the door is open and
then insults whoever is in front of the property. I guess he only barks at
something he can see. There is a fence and the garden door is closed, of
course. He doesn't bark at people he knows though. The friends and the
fishmonger who comes on thursdays are in that category. I am trying to teach
the fishmonger not to bribe the dog, by the way.

than panicking and running off. I dunno if I've put that exactly right, but
you probably get the idea. If he's afraid of passing strangers on the
sidewalk, but has an impeccable "heel," that will help him get used to being
around strangers. He'll find out that there's nothing to fear, and you'll
be praising him when he heels during those situations.

He sounds like what I call a Big Soft Dog - likes to please you, and
therefore easy to train. So you shouldn't have much of a problem with this.
It will take time. IMO, definitely when introducing him to the strange
sounds/situations, try to find some that are stationary, where you can
approach them just to his level of discomfort. Then maybe do a bit of
obedience with him right there.

3 - is it possible to teach him that he is not to be friendly with all and

montana wildhack...

Gotta love the dogues. It's their bodies that take so long to mature,
not necessarily their brains. Since they are so large, they can be
terribly dangerous, whether they mean to be or not. Snapping and biting
is really bad.

It would be in your best interest to seek professional help for your
dog. And it is also in your best interest that he is friendly with
strangers, although I find it difficult to believe that he will be
friendly with all strangers who enter your house without your approval.

the.longest.username.available...

Yeah, I find it interesting that he is friendly with strangers that
enter the house without your approval. My dogue de bordeaux mix is
very friendly with everyone so long as I am around to be in charge.
But if I am not in the house, or I am sleeping and someone walks in he
is the exact opposite, even to people he has met a few times before.
Those he is familiar with he is still friendly with though. I pity the
first thief that breaks into my house at night, and I pity me for
having to clean up the mess in the morning.

every strangers?

flick...

I've never had to teach a dog to be unfriendly. IMO though, once he's more
confident and not afraid of strange situations, and more mature, the
protectiveness will come to the fore.

TaraG...

news orange...

I will try, thanks.

And, in a naturally scared dog, best of all if this never turns into
anything more than aloofness, IMO. Nothing safe about a dog with skittish
nerves and permission to decide what/who's dangerous and who's not.
Especially a giant breed.

flick...

Yes. IMO a person with a big dog of any type needs to have that dog under
excellent control.

Best use of a dog for protection is as a deterrent, anyway. Doesn't much

montana wildhack...

We followed that procedure with great results, except for one part.

We couldn't get our trigger word (say) out before the dog barked, but
we could tell the dog "good say" as soon as the dog barked and then
give the reward.

With Bella, I liked it when she initially gives the quiet likke "moof"
bark first, but I'd cup my hand behind my ear and say, "I can't hear
you" before she got her treat and she would bark loudly. It didn't
occur to me that I was teaching her a hand signal for barking until I
did the signal without the command and she performed on cue.

matter, most of the time, whether or not the dog will actually do something.
The majority of bad guys will leave alone a target or a house with a large
dog and try something/somebody else easier and safer for them.

Amy Dahl...

It's been suggested to me that a large dog that is obedient will
intimidate a lot of would-be bad guys. If the dog will heel and
sit when told, I guess it's easy to infer it would attack on command.

flick...

I've had personal experience with bad guys and dogs, and you're right.

flick 100785

Amy Dahl

Teach him to bark on command. Don't use a cutesy command like "speak."
More like "watch it" or "who's that." Makes bad guys think you've got a
trained attack beast on the leash ;-).

TaraG...

I totally agree. The OPs last dog wasn't so much a deterrent as a rescuer.
If his wife gets in the habit of not allowing the dog to wander off while
she's waiting, but instead, keeps him on command right by her side, I doubt
anyone will ever mess with her. Especially with a good "Watch him" command,
along with a few other tricks like "Stand at attention", "Danger" (eliciting
a trained growl, as opposed to a real one) etc.

flick...

Yes, yes, yes. The dog DOES need to be under control while out in public,
too. If he wanders off while off leash, then he should be leashed.

To the OP: get your hands on a book called "The Cautious Canine" by Dr.
Patricia McConnell. It uses desensitization techniques for handling fear,
and I've used similar methods on barely-to-non-functioning dogs for years.
It works well....especially if you don't try to rush through the process
(when it comes to fear, going slowly is actually the *fastest* way through
the problem).

I don't buy the breed groups argument that he'll mature out of this.
Honestly, I think that advice could actually be fairly dangerous in this
case, but that's assuming that a) I read your descriptions correctly, and
that b) you weren't exaggerating your dog's reactions. Print is a
notoriously poor way of determining behavioral problems like this as one
missed signal from the dog can make or break whether or not advice is
appropriate.

flick...

I think maturity is going to help the situation, but not absent the owner
actively working on the skittishness via desensitization, which I hoped I
described well enough to give him a good idea of how to go about it.

He also needs the dog to be well obedience trained. That'll help the
skittishness and as you point out, help it appear to bad guys as though the
dog will do *anything* for its owner. Heh.

Actually, come to think of it, the wife having it on-leash will make the dog
appear *more* dangerous to bad guys. Off-leash implies the dog's harmless,
to a thug - looks like you don't have to keep him away from other people
because he's so safe and friendly.

flick 100785

news orange...

No problem. There are not too many neighbours, they aren't too close and
their dogs are worse.

flick 100785

Mirelle...

You do not have a French Mastiff.
I do not believe you.
You are someone from this group, most likely Ninny who wanted to start
a thread.

Potential problem with a dogue de Bordeaux (French Mastiff) - long