Dogs and Cat

You would think I would know exactly what to do and how to do this but it
honestly has never been an issue in my life before.

We are making plans for a move to a house that will be large enough for DH
and me, my mother (with COPD and Alzheimer's) and my adult brother (who has
been living with Mom).

shore...

Wow. Best wishes for the move! Are you staying in the same
area?

We have two adult schnauzers (five years old) - who have never lived with a
cat. When they see one they get very excited. And if the cat should RUN,
well, you know they have to give chase. They do kill rabbits and such when
they catch them in our yard.

My brother has an adult cat (eight/nine years old?) who, as a kitten until
about two years old, lived with dogs but based on her reaction when we visit
my mother's house, she has forgotten. She was de-clawed by a previous
owner. She is not a terribly friendly cat - never sits on laps, tolerates
limited petting and then only on her own terms. She does hang out sometimes
with my brother and mother in the same room and likes to be talked to by
them. Other people send her into hiding.

I have had dogs and cats together most of my life. We just threw them all
together and they quickly worked it out and almost always became friends of
sorts.

My brother's vet suggested putting the cat in a cage (this is a cat who
HATES being crated) and then letting the dogs into the room to get used to
her while she's being protected. I can't agree that this is going to work -
especially because of the cat's reaction. I would expect her to be
terrified both by the crate and by the dogs sniffing and (knowing Sassy as I
do) trying to dig their way into the crate.

DH says we will take the introductions slowly and just be vigilant until the
dogs understand that the cat is not vermin to be chased. I can see that
possibly working - knowing that we should probably never plan to leave them
all loose alone in the house. But, boy, would I feel terrible if something
happened to the cat.

Brother is not concerned about it (although it's clearly his cat who would
have the greatest adjustment to make). Like me, he grew up with dogs and
cats all living together and getting along.

Mom is concerned about it (we have always kept them apart when visiting) but
with her memory losses, she is just as likely to try to stir the dogs up
just because.

The house could have a place where the cat can be safe and it can be a
dog-free zone. But the dogs will be allowed in all the other living areas
of the house. Which are also the places where the people will be hanging
out.

Any tried and true tricks to introduce these animals and help them achieve

Mary H Healey...

My experience has been somewhat like Melinda's. Sam and the cats were
fine. Noah made them nervous, but they could get away from him if they
didn't want to deal with his large nose up their butts. Ranger is a
persistent pest, and the cats pretty much confined themselves to the dog-
free zone after his arrival.

The more likely the dogs are to chase/damage the cats, the less likely it
is you'll be able to convince the cat that hanging around the dog(s) is a
Good Thing.

Judy...

And unfortunately, we are working with a cat who doesn't think hanging
around even with *people* is a Good Thing. She makes herself pretty scarce
if we go up to visit even without the dogs. There are times that she will
manage to stay in the living room while I'm there but mostly she takes off
for safer places. When my mother had her hip surgery several years ago and
I was there for 10 hours a day, five days a week, she got so she would
cautiously come out and wander through the room in spite of my presence. I
have even been allowed on half a dozen occasions over the years to actually
touch her head to scratch it.

And then we have dogs who think that anything that runs should be chased.

I think it was actually easier to train the beagles to leave the flying
squirrel alone than it will be to convince these two schnauzers that the cat
does not need to be chased. The beagles had been trained to concentrate on
rabbits and to ignore other interesting smells and animals when they were
out hunting - and their hunting instincts are very pack-centered. A
schnauzer is bred to make such decisions entirely on his own.

I really wish the cat had claws so that she could turn on them just once.
Our previous schnauzer had a life-long scar across his eyelid from a
neighbor's cat and he never forgot that those critters have sharp nails.
Poor thing - what he never knew was that the cat was de-clawed the very next
day. As respectful as he was of cats and their claws, he had no hesitation
about attacking a woodchuck.

Paula...

I guess if you really wanted to, you could "cat proof" like they snake
proof dogs, but that's kind of an extreme. If it's a life or death of
the cat issue and the dogs and cat have to live together, though, it
could be an option.

We did have one beagle, came into the marriage along with my husband, who
had been trained (by my FIL) to kill cats. Dog was terrified of cows but
killed cats for the sport of it. Unlike other critters, he attacked cats
from the top - he figured out that the sharp parts can't reach you there.
No fear of anything else - he had been known to run down and corner a deer.
After half a day's chase, he did seem to reconsider on the bear he took off
after. We were able to teach him not to kill the housecats when we were
there. But as he proved on one occasion, he could not be trusted when alone
with them.

We'll get there with these two dogs, somehow, eventually. The "do not kill"

Judy...

Point taken.

I'm assuming that we will never be able to trust them alone together in the
house. But then, that's also true of my mother now. At least the "alone"
part. She can be with either the dogs or the cat - as long as there aren't
any treats for her to continually feed them.

I mentioned having a dog-free zone for the cat but looking at the facts of
the situation, I don't see a way to do this without keeping the cat behind a
closed door. A baby gate that an overweight cat could get over (assuming
that she would even try) won't slow my part-goat agility dogs down at all.

Mary H Healey...

My cat room gate is "extra tall" (36") and installed with a 5" gap at the
bottom. Enough room for the cats to to get under (even 18 lb Gareth, back
in the day), but not enough for the dogs. You might need to adjust the gap
a bit for your (relatively) smaller dogs, but even Lindy has never wriggled
her way under.

Sassy can clear 36 inches without even thinking about it. (They are so well

Mary H Healey...

Ranger is still jumping the 4' fence at age 10.

fenced trained though that it just might work better than I'd think.) And

Shelly...

Harriet can clear a 4' fence without blinking. I've got a 23" baby gate
across the bathroom door. I've cut a hole in the plastic mesh, so the
gate sits flat on the floor (old cat was having trouble scrunching down
to go under). Harriet has never even attempted to go over it. It's
like the thought has never occurred to her. She *does* on occasion try
to shove her head through the cat hole, which makes me giggle.

there isn't a cat door that a 14 pound cat can go through that a 14 pound
schnauzer can't also use. These are dogs who can go down an earthdog tunnel
that is 9 by 9 inches and turn around. On at least one occasion, we've had
both dogs down the same tunnel, side by side attacking the rat cage.

I can live with the cat forever banished to my brother's bedroom. I like
cats but this one holds no attraction for me. If, for instance, we could
make one bedroom wing of the house off limits for the dogs, I could live
with that. But they absolutely will be allowed to be wherever we are. And
training my mother to keep them separated and not obssessing on it is
probably impossible.

Oh boy. Probably I'm just trying to concentrate on a smaller problem that
seems like it should be fixable rather than getting overwhelmed by the
alligators about to overflow the moat and create a real problem.

part will be easier than the "does not need to be chased" part will be. It
would be easier if I could predict what my mother's behavior will be in the

Mary H Healey...

If the layout of the house will allow it, a permanent gate separating the
"cat only" part of the house works well. Primarily as a physical
separation of dogs and cat, but secondarily as a boundary between "allowed"
and "not allowed". Right his minute, Ranger is asleep in the hallway, as
close as he can squeeze to the (open) gate. The cat is asleep about 4 feet
away from him.

If you can teach the dogs that the cat area is off limits, then those times
that your mom leaves the gate open may not prove disastrous.

situation. It's entirely possible that she will keep the pot stirred and
the dogs agitated. She does really like the cat but her thought processes
aren't always rational.

some sort of truce?

lgohring...

I was once told to put the cat in a room with the door closed. They
will be able to smell each other threw the door. If there is a crack
under the door even better. Leave them this way until both parties are
calm and the dogs can go by the door with out getting all excited. This
gives them a chance to get use to each others scent saftly. Could take
a couple of days. From there try and introduce them in person.

shore...

My experience with the Siberians and cats is that it can be
done up to a point. The interactions have to be heavily
supervised until it's clear that the dog gets the idea, and
the dog has to get a clear, unambiguous message that he's
not allowed to mess with the cat. It's the only time I've
gotten ferocious with my dogs, but my guys are so predatory
and the stakes were so high (the cats lives) that I wasn't
willing to take undue risks.

Here's the point at which it became untenable: Crow and
Eclipse came into the household together and were (and are)
bonded like crazy. They tend to amplify each other's
behavior and that sets off the others, so that, for example,
Cinder, who's usually loathe to do anything that might
attract negative attention, started going after the cats
when she saw Crow stalking them. So, we were good up to six
dogs, then Duncan died and the two girls came in and upset
the cat situation. The cats are now living in the main
barn.

I don't know your dogs or your situation, but I would think
that your dogs could learn to be fine with the cats. The
main problem I ran into was packy behavior from the dogs.
Otherwise, I've got photos of Image asleep with her head on
Moby George (cat), and similar with the other dogs (Martha
[other cat] was much more circumspect around the dogs).