crating duration

Not for how long during a workday, but how long for a dog's lifespan?

Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory...

BWEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST

Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory...

It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.

Works like a charm.

My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.

Sorry that slipped my mind.

I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.

Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.

Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.

Seemed he learned through osmosis.

Nice side benefit there.

It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.

I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.

I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.

I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.

Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.

Mike

Rocky...

I'm amazed at the number of people who crate their dogs at
night for life and don't even consider that it may not be
necessary.

For example, I was looking after a friend's dog the other
weekend and had no special instructions. The owners were
amazed that I'd had no problems with him being free at night.
When questioned, they had no specific reason to crate their
dog.

FurPaw...

We crated Gordo and Chile as pups only until they were housetrained.

Dylan was in a crate or pen for more than a year, less than 2.
She enjoyed ripping things up. Carpet, shoes, window screens,
boxes... She seemed to like her crate, and after we took it down
she resorted to cubbying out under our desks.

Oppie - less than a year.

We did have occasional episodes of counter surfing, when we
forgot to put food away. We always blamed Oppie, the canine
bottomless pit. After Dylan died, the episodes ceased.
Completely. Poor Oppie! At least when the incidents happened,
we had enough sense to smack ourselves, not Oppie, over the head
with a rolled up newspaper.

Curious how many choose to crate a dog forever, whenever they leave

Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory...

You mean IF the dog abuser can keep the dog locked inside:

Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory...

Research Laboratory

Subject: The crate escape - my brilliant puppy!

1 From: Janet B
Date: Wed, Apr 5 2006 7:44 am
Email: Janet B j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com

After Rudy came to stay with us, I got tired of running into an open
crate door, so I bought a new crate, with a door that folds up and in.
"can't be opened from the inside" says the ad. I always looked at
these and hought "right", but for the last few months (yes, folks, it's

been 3.5 months) it has worked great.

Until Monday.

That's when Mr Smarty-pants decided he knew how to open it.
And greeted us at the door after 6+ hours of freedom.

A chewed wastebasket lid and a puddle inside the front door (he
loses it if very excited and yesterday morning I found evidence
that a smallish dog had apparently "visited" right outside my full
view front door) was all that was wrong.

So yesterday, when I left for a short errand, I made sure to
clip the door closed securely. And once again came home
to an unconfined puppy.

So, today, the crate will get clips on the door to ensure this doesn't
happen again. I need him to learn that he shouldn't let himself out.
But it looks like he's going to be allowed house freedom within a few
days, and since he'll be 9 months old on Monday, that'll be the day.

I'll take the next few days to put some shoes away and check out other
things he may be interested in, and get out the bitter apple. My house

is not exactly the neatest place in the world, and there's a lot of
stuff that may be too available and interesting. We shall see.

My puppy is growing up and too smart for his own good!

the house and/or overnight, or how many choose to wean from household
crate usage (usage being shutting the dog in the crate, not the dog
choosing to hang out there) at some specific ages or maturity levels.

TaraG...

Totally wean. I like to have a dog completely weaned by 10 months to 1.5
years (breed and individual dog dependant)

Robin Nuttall...

Depends on the dog. Viva must be crated when I'm gone. Forever and ever
amen. She's pica. If I leave her loose she will eat any cloth available.
That includes dog beds, upholstery, cushions, bedspreads--you name it.
And she can ingest an incredible amount in a very small amount of time.
Not too long ago I left her out because I was literally only going to be
gone 15 minutes. I had left a t-shirt on the floor in the bathroom. By
the time I got home it was half gone. Fortunately so far everything has
either passed through or come back up--but I have to restrict her as
much as possible.

Zipper is almost where he could be uncrated--but I don't trust him loose
with Cala, who loves him but still sometimes plays a bit too rough. Cala
is loose and reliable when I'm gone.

MauiJNP...

oh, Cali was crated for 2 nights when I first got her. She was fine the
first night but the second she cried all the time. The third night, I tried
to tether her like I had done with Maui but she chewed the leash (and the
second one, and the third one, and the harness, all in the same night) and
ever since then, she slept on my pillow, leaving only a little room for my
head.

Maui has never spent a night in the crate. He was tethered to the head of
my bed (he liked to sleep on my headboard, not in the dog bed I had for him)
and the tether got longer as he got older until it was no longer needed. I
guess he was about 4-5 months old when the tether was totally gone.

(picture of Maui in the headboard)...............

Janet B...

awwww - I can't imagine having a dog who would fit in furniture
cubbies! ;-D

ceb...

Too cute!!

Paul E. Schoen...

I just thought I would throw in a few words based on my experience with
Muttley, who is now sprawled on my bed snoring.

When I first got him, I had no real knowledge or experience about dogs,
especially ones who have been recently rescued as strays. The first couple
of nights were rough. I had put him inside a hastily assembled chain link
6' x 6' x 4' high kennel with additional fencing on top, but at night he
managed to bend the bottom of the fencing and he got out, although he was
still tethered to the frame. I had a doghouse for him as well, but he never
seemed to want to go in it, even when the weather was cold and wet
(February). He seemed OK about being tethered, so that's what I did, both
inside and outside.

For several months, I gradually was able to trust him to have mostly free
run in the house, but he often had "accidents" where he peed on the floor
when I was not closely watching him. It was probably mostly his excitement
about hearing, seeing, or smelling my cat.

In the last month or so, he seems to have matured a lot, and is less
aggressive toward the cat, to the point where he will watch me feed and pet
her on the porch without trying to tear down the screen door. Of course I
make sure I give him attention when I come back in.

He has chewed on some things that he should not have, such as some computer
cables, but he seems to understand that I am not pleased. I have since
given him more suitable chews, such as rawhide, which he carefully shreds
and completely devours. Now he has a nylon "bone".

I have been able to leave him in the house, with essentially free run and
all sorts of possible temptations, for as long as 8 or 10 hours, and he has
not caused any mischief. He informs me when he wants to go out, and he has
been good about doing his business when I walk him, although he will also
do it when I let him out back on his tether for a while. He usually just
sleeps on the steps until I let him in.

I am probably fortunate to have a dog who is apparently smart enough, and
sufficiently motivated to please, that he can be trusted on his own in the
house, and also possibly learning to accept the cat to some small extent.
This is especially amazing after probably quite a long time of running wild
on the street.

He still needs more training, and I will find out tonight how he behaves in
the company of other dogs in his first obedience class. He (and I) have
been doing homework with some success. It has been a long hard journey,
especially the first 4 or 5 months, but maybe my patience (and some
instruction) is now paying off. It will be a lot harder now for me to give
him up, but I think it will still be for the best. However, I will insist
on a very special home for him, however long it may take.

Janet B...

As you know Paul I wish him (and you) only the best outcome. The
first night with dogs can seem a little hectic (but often is not), so
think calm thoughts! ;-D

shore...

I stop closing the doors on crates during meals when the dog
starts understanding that this is his/her place to eat and
runs in there at mealtime (i.e., soon). With crating at
night, I stop closing the doors at night when the dog has
gone about a week without a housetraining accident during
the day.

flick...

Mine have not required crating once they were past the chewing stage. I
don't use crates with the bunch I have now.

flick 100785

Marcel Beaudoin...

Moogli gets crated every night when I go to bed. He is simply not
trustworthy to leave out. He pulls the eyes off of teddy bears and pulls
out/eats the stuffing. He never does it when we are awake, only when we are

diddy...

Moogli, the Teddy Bear Slasher! Who woulda thunk it?

asleep. His crate is at the foot of our bed.

In addition, Emilie is now sleeping in a bed, not in her crib [1], and we
don't want him going in her room at night and waking her up by jumping on
her.

During the day when Gen and I are at work, Moogli also gets crated. He
enjoys barking far too much for us to allow him to be free. We do leave him
in our bedroom (where his crate is) with the door closed, but the crate
opened.

On the weekend, if we go out for a couple of hours, we will leave him free,
but any longer and he gets crated/shut in the bedroom.

[1] I know she is growing up and all, but emotionally, I am *not* ready for
it. She turned 18 months old on Monday! She's not wsupposed to be growing

diddy...

I can just see you when her first suitor comes to the door. LOL

old this fast.

TOTE...

I wean the crate according to the individual dog's behavior. First at
night (because they are in my bedroom with the door closed), then
increasing periods with baby gates limiting access to trouble spots.

Rocky...

I crate Rocky, even though he's 8.5 years old, but only when
I'm gone during summertime days - maybe an hour at the most.
(Other than hot days, my dogs are always with me.)

While Friday has been totally reliable unsupervised from the
day I got him from a rescue, Rocky has not. Rocky will go
looking for food even in areas where there's no possibility of
food.

Shelly...

Ah. Another good reason to crate adult dogs. Thanks for mentioning
that, as it hadn't occurred to me.

Harriet (very) occasionally gets into the trash, but it's been an
awfully long time since she's done that, and I've become pretty well
trained to put it up, that it's not a problem anymore. Now, if I could
train the cat to leave Kleenexes in the trash, everything would be
peachy.

The good thing is that he likes his crate, runs for it when I
ask, and gets food when he's in it.

Shelly...

Harriet has always been "meh" about her crate. She gets into it
willingly when told, and has never seemed to mind being crated, but
she's not been what I'd call enthusiastic about it. She gets fed at
least half her meals in it, gets treats there, and now that she's the
only dog, that's where her toys and chewies get tossed when I clean up.
She's lately decided that her crate is a pretty nice place. I regularly
find her sprawled out in it, napping away. Beats me why she suddenly
*loves* her crate, but she does.

Les Hilliard...

I don't even own a crate anymore. Once Nikki was housebroken her
crate became a place to store her toys, her blanket, and all my stolen
socks. She is completely trustworthy in the apartment and hasn't even
chewed on anything unappropriate since she was a puppy. When we recently
moved into a different apartment, I really didn't have room for the crate
so I sold it and Nikki now keeps her toys under an endtable. Her blanket
has been permantly dragged onto my bed and she hides my stolen socks in the
recliner for guests to find when they visit.
She sleeps with me at night and although I take her for a walk before
bedtime, she has learned how to wake me up at night if she discovers she
has to go again before morning. Although she usually travels with me when
I go somewhere, I have no reservation at all leaving her in the apartment
unattended when it's necessary or it's to hot out. The only thing I am
sure to do, if I'm going to be gone for more than a few hours, is to have
one of my neighbors look in on her from time to time in case she has to
potty. Sometimes she's gone to grandma's if I'm going to be gone all day.
I'm not at all worried about her getting into anything if I'm gone,
she usually sleeps, plays with her toys, or watches tv, but I prefer not to
leave her alone for too long just in case she has to potty. I'm quite sure
she would hold it if no one was there to take her out but I see no point to
make her do that so I make provisions for her in the event I'm not going to
be home for several hours. I don't know how I got blessed with such a mild
mannered, well behaved little dog but I sure am grateful she's in my life

Shelly...

I crate as long as it's necessary. With Elliott, that was never. With
Harriet, who had SA, she was crated until she was 3yo (I'd have to
Google to be more specific). While she was crated, it was only during
he day, when I was not home to supervise her. At night, she's always
slept on my bed instead of in a crate.

About the only reasons I can think of to crate adult dogs long-term is
for SA or because of potential dog aggression.

Paula...

For me, it has depended on the dog's personality as well as
reliability. Right now, we aren't using any crates on a regular

MauiJNP...

same here. Maui stopped getting crated when I go away as soon as I was sure
he wouldn't pee in the bedroom (where he was gated in). He was about 10 or
so months old. He was not a big chewer at that point and I could trust him
to just sleep while I was gone. He does not eat, drink, play when I am not
home. He is still that way.

Cali, on the other hand, is a bit more work. She still gets crated (in
Maui's crate since he never uses it and it is bigger) when I leave and
during the day when I can't watch her full time. She chews anything and
everything. I hope to have her gated with Maui in the room when I leave
eventually, but I think that is a while off. I did try it the other day for
a 4 hours and she did very well BUT it took a lot of puppy proofing and I
was still nervous when I was gone. Though, overall, she is a lot more nerve
racking in general. She still gets tethered outside (when she needs to go
potty) because she runs a whole lot faster than me. Although she has a very
good recall, inside and out, she does have the occasion I'M
FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE sprint where she "can't hear me".

basis. With dogs I have had in the past, I wondered if it was going
to be a lifelong thing, but the worst in reliability was also the one
who most loved her crate, so that wasn't an issue. It was easier to
just kennel her at night with the same routine and ritual she loved
and both live happily ever after. Why push it when crating always
meant extra safety even for more reliable dogs and this particular dog
was happy being crated? Other dogs have never been crated, having
come to me reliable from rescue and not liking crates much.

montana wildhack...

Bella (5) was crated during the day for periods of time when the two
old dogs were still living because she pestered them and they didn't
like it. We used to have a crate in the office for that purpose, so she
could be with everybody but not annoy the old dogs. After Tracy died,
we got rid of the office crate (2 years ago).

She's never really spent too many nights in the crate because we found
housetraining went more easily for us when she slept on the bed with us.

We still use the crate if we're going to be gone more than a couple of
hours because Bella doesn't feel particularly confident if she's left
in the house alone. She has shredded stuff on occasion and recently had
a UTI . Being in the crate managed both of those problems.

We've changed her crate to one of those fabric pop-up crates. We took
that on vacation with us and crated her at night because she was
shedding so much that we'd never get the house clean enough for the
rest of the family. She knew this crate was different, and when we went
to dinner & crated her, she walked that crate around the house end to
end like a giant hamster ball. (she only did that once)

We're actively working on the confidence issues and we have to work on
the eating of the kleenex issues.

diddy...

You could teach her ACHOOO! -by Tuck.
Kleenex have value if you GIVE them away ..NOT eat them!
When you sneeze, Tuck hands you the tissue box

elegy...

mine, unfortunately, have to be crated when i'm not home for fight
prevention purposes. i'd prefer to just keep them in separate rooms,
but the layout of the house doesn't support that.

luce (4) has to be crated when i leave regardless because she'll try
to go through windows. i suspect it's a touch of SA? she does fine and
stays calm and collected in her crate, so i don't argue with success.

when i leave mushroom (4) home alone he stays loose. he's trustworthy
and has never bothered anything.

i got both as adults. luce has never been crated at night. mushroom
was crated at night for his first week, and then tethered to my
bedframe at night to sleep on the dog bed on the floor for 2 weeks
before he was granted bed priviledges.

Agility...

Why do you ask Janet?

Janet B...

to annoy YOU! HTH!

Stalkers are weird......

Agility...

STalker? Now, I'm a stalker? ROFL!! For those who don't know I Janet
from another board. Janet thinks that crating adult dogs means you
can't train the dog and the dog is seriously lacking in something in
his life. She posted this poll to see if there are people who agree
with that.

montana wildhack...

This has been an interesting thread. Thanks to Janet for starting it
and thanks to everyone for their thoughtful responses.

I guess we've done a good job of making sure that dogs are comfortable
in their crates. None of them has had problems with the crate. That's
one thing I don't have to worry about if a dog has to have an
overnighter at the vet.

And when we had three dogs, we crated them when we left because we
couldn't count on them to behave perfectly towards each other 100% of
the time. They never put up any fuss about going to their" beds" and we
never had to worry about any hideous mishaps.