stealing a dog

I almost did this today, stole a dog that is (if this would be

Michael A. Ball...

What an ethical dilemma that would be for most folks! Fortunately, I'm
not one of them.

I consider the dog's owner naive, inept and probably unfit as pet
owners, but it is not illegal to be that way. It is illegal to take
things that don't belong to you. However, I never pass up even a penny,
because it is easier to get forgiveness, than to get permission.

MauiJNP...

sounds good

Supposedly God sees all sins as the same degree of evil. So stealing the

shore...

Um, what? Clams Casino and murder are the same in the eyes
of G-d? This has got to be Leah's church.

Anyway, we don't all come from the same religious tradition,
and in my religious tradition we are responsible for
understanding as much as we can and weighing what we know.
Personally, I don't think that G-d would be all, like, "GO
MICHAEL!!" if the dog belonged to someone who had nobody
else, or was mentally incompetent, or ... What you're
proposing smacks of using religion to justify a decision
that you'd already made ("I'm a *way* better pet owner than
that loser!") rather than using your religious beliefs to
guide your decision.

Sounds to me like an opportunity to work with the owner to
help her be a better owner. Not to mention that that would
help address an economic issue, which is that you'd be
creating demand by taking the dog.

dog is no worse than failing to rescue it. Did the dog need rescuing?

MauiJNP...

agreed. I would never do that. Not just because I don't want the dog but

Rocky...

Make up your mind. You titled the thread "stealing a dog."

MauiJNP...

when I said "stealing" I meant taking the dog to call the owners about it
later (either right away and saying I almost hit it) or later so they'd have
a chance to worry about him and maybe change their behavior. either way, I
would not have kept the dog. I would have either called a shelter, AC or
the owners.

Paula...

She said it would be tempting but has long since decided that it would
not be the right thing to do and she wouldn't do it. The title wasn't

MauiJNP...

correct

changed, but she has said repeatedly that she has decided taking the
dog would not be the right way to handle it.

MauiJNP...

that's right, others have provided much better alternatives

Rocky...

There have been too many qualifactions placed on the word
"stealing" in this thread's context. To tell you the truth, I
don't know whether Jennifer considers taking the dog to AC with
tags removed (for example) stealing. For the record, I do.

Paula...

I didn't catch Jennifer saying that was okay. For the record, too
late for me to think over whether I would call it stealing or not, but
I would definitely consider it wrong. The dog should be turned over
to AC as found. Around here, taking the tags off before turning it in
will also make it more likely the dog ends up dead, which I would
think nobody would want.

MauiJNP...

If it came to taking the dog to AC or a shelter, I would not remove the
tags. I would make sure the shelter/AC has a way to contact the family. I
would probably also call the family myself and tell them where to find the
dog. I don't think this would be stealing.

If I would not return the dog to the family and not turn it over to the
shelter/AC, then I totally agree this is stealing and something I would
NEVER do.

The thought of turning the dog over to the shelter/AC without tags is

Michael A. Ball...

I've lost track of how this even entered the discussion. Its just one of

Sionnach...

It entered the discussion because I related an isolated incidence in which
I did so, and then in a second post reiterated exactly *why* I did it. Given
that you actually replied to the second post, in which it was clear what I
was referring to, I'm a bit surprised you'd say the above.

those silly ideas.

shelly...

Sarah was relating an experience she had. What a silly thing to do!

Strangely enough, a lot of dogs end up at the shelter with the collars
removed. Sometimes, they have pulled out of their collar, either at home
or along the way, or someone has removed it. I've never understood the

shelly...

People often remove the collar when they dump a dog, so that it
doesn't look like it has an owner, and is thus more likely to be
taken in by someone.

logic in doing that. Sadly, many fine dogs arrive at the shelter with no
collar; and often those with collars have no tags. There's no way to
finding the owner! And often the owner doesn't think to contact the
shelter. :-(

shelly...

More likely, the owner doesn't wish to contact the shelter.

_________________________
Zildjan: world class cymbal of excellence.

something that I hadn't even thought of until it was mentioned here. Either
way, I would not do this either. I don't think it is stealing per say but I
still would not do it because it doesn't seem right.

Sionnach...

To be absolutely clear, it it not something *I* would ever normally do
either, and again, I would have made sure the shelter got the owners'
information well within the holding period.

MauiJNP...

You had plans to make sure that the legal owners were going to be found
eventually (by calling afterward and keeping the contact numbers) which I
think is different from someone who would remove the tags and not follow
thru with it

I did it in that one incidence because the owners had REPEATEDLY
demonstrated that they thought it was perfectly fine for the dog to run
loose - again, he'd already been picked up twice by someone else, and the
owners had been angry at that person for "interfering" rather than grateful

Michael A. Ball...

"Interfering". Thank you for mentioning that word. Animal control
officers are typically viewed as interfering. The response to them is
very often hostile: cursing and threat of physical harm. Surely private
citizens, good Samaritans, should expect no less.

________________________
Experience is something you don't get--until just after you need it.

the dog was returned.
And again, they not only REFUSED TO COME AND PICK HIM UP when we called
them, but HUNG UP when Dani tried to explain that he was in danger of being
killed on the road.

If the tags had had the owners' address, I'd have driven there, camped on
their doorstep, and given them a large piece of my mind, including telling
them that A, I would be reporting them to Animal Control as soon as I got
home, and B, that if I found him again, I would turn him directly over to
County Animal Control.

As it was, I wanted to do something that would scare them sufficiently to
drive home to them exactly how much danger they were placing their dog in by
letting him run loose to be repeatedly found by strangers.
I could just as easily have taken him and kept him, turned him over to
Golden Rescue, or sold him... none of which I'd've done, but they didn't
know that.

Hopefully this clears things up and not makes it more confusing.

Rocky...

Thanks for the clarification, Jennifer. There have been a
couple of ways I could have interpreted some of your posts and I
thank you for clearing it up.

I've been a defender of the OP in other threads, but it dismays
me as to how some people trivialise the act of re-homing a dog
that is probably not receiving the best of care.

Paula...

bethgsd...

With people like that, they really leave you no choice but to go to AC,
the police, etc.
I lived under such people in my last apartment.

I am tempted to steal the chihuahua next door so I can get sleep in
the morning, he doesn't have to spend his entire day outside from
about six in the morning on (I guess that is when they go to work
because that is when he starts barking pretty much nonstop, my dogs
aren't continually being tempted to go teach him some manners. I
won't steal him, but I have called AC. I didn't think putting a light
sweater on a chi made it okay for him to be out in weather as cold as
it got last winter. I don't know if AC visited or not, but the dog is
still out there. We'll see if he is in more in the winter, but what
are the odds they will have arrangements then if they never have them
now?

bethgsd...

Paula,
I'm going to guess that you've already spoken with the chihuahua's
owners about this.
One of my dogs used to bark sometimes early in the am when I was
getting ready for work and I really didn't notice it. (amazing the
things we don't hear) My neighbor brought it to my attention, very
politely I might add, and let me tell you none of my dogs barks more
than once outside early in the am now.

Anyway, my post in this subthread was in response to Mr Ball,
who appears to believe one instance of running at large is
reason enough to steal a dog.

Michael A. Ball...

In this jurisdiction, whether it is the first occurrence or the X to nth
power, running at large is running at large. The only thing that changes
is animal controls and/or the court's response.

When a dog is found running at large, does anyone check to see if it the
first time? Actually, yes, they do.

If "steal" now means to (a.) take control of the dog and contact the
owner, or (b.) contact animal control, then yes, I 100% advocate
stealing the dog.

I've never seen such a well-meaning post get so fouled.

Rocky...

I have a good deal of respect for the OP, which is why I felt
comfortable in being critical of her originally implied
intentions towards the dog.

shelly...

I should clarify that I was not referring to Jennifer's original
post when I commented on Mr. Ball's use of the term "well meaning."
I think Jennifer was truly trying to figure out what was the best
way to handle a difficult moral dilemma. My comment was in
reference to Mr. Ball's subsequent posts.

_________________________
Some trees are ever green.

Paula...

I didn't catch that, either. I strongly disagree with the opinions
Mr. Ball has expressed in this thread. It's easy to get all caught up
and gung ho about what needs to be done about these awful dog owners,
but then wouldn't a bunch of our dogs be taken away if a certain
someone who should not be named had any power over it? It's way too
easy to label someone a dog-abusing thug.

bethgsd...

Maybe he is channeling Leah.
Not everyone agrees on what is the best of care. I have neighbors that
think I'm a big meanie pants because my dogs are in the house when I'm
not home. And another neighbor that is trying to steal one of my cats
because she has decided that I shouldn't be able to have dogs and cats.
Go figure.

TaraG...

Apparently, so is feeding your dog some cheese.

Paula...

No, no, no!!! It's not feeding your dog all your cheese that
justifies having it stolen. But only if stolen by someone with more
cheese and more willingness to share it with the dogs. In fact,
anyone who can withstand the laser stares or cute tricks of dogs who
are begging for goodies should not be allowed to own dogs. Anybody
want to come get my dogs as soon as they get a peek in the fridge and
see what all I have been holding back on them?

shelly...

Yes, well, a murderer by any other name is still a sinner.

also because I know it is wrong and not the best solution to the problem

MauiJNP...

agreed

MauiJNP...

that's a whole other can I worms that I will not open

After all, it was following a routine! In my opinion, it definitely
needed rescuing.

MauiJNP...

sounds good. I usually go near the area in question to get my dog's food so
I will have to go near the dog's house. that way I can check if he is out
loose and away from his house. If he is running around and not near his
house, I just may have to rescue him. After all, I could always call the
owners and tell them that I almost hit him and maybe even make a call to
Animal Control with the same story. Maybe it would be enough to scare the
owners into keeping him tied? Maybe Animal Control would be able to enforce
it?

________________________
Whatever it takes.

considered stealing).

While driving on a busy road, I noticed a small white dog (best guess
Bichon Frise) walking along the side in the grass. He was about 2 feet from
the road. He was not tied and was going potty. I noticed a lady outside

MauiJNP...

sounds good

karsan...

I do not know what the circustances are but if the dog was in danger
the dog should be dropped at the animal control facititty. What
penalites would the ower face for allowing the dog to run loose and was
the dog on a leash?

(about 50-75 feet back from the road, where the house was). I immediately
wanted to pull over and ask her what she was thinking letting the dog out so
close to the road. He could easily have wound up dead. Anyway, I passed
the dog while slowing down and keeping my eyes on him. In the rearview
mirror, I could see the dog go out into the road and by now I was getting
worried about him. I pulled around and went back to the house. I opened
the door and he practically ran over to jump in the car. I got out and
started in the direction of the lady who at this time was walking towards me
too. I asked her if the dog was hers and she said "no, he belongs about 6
houses down". She went on to explain that she often has to take the dog
back to its house because it seems to keep finding its way to her house.
She takes it home whenever she sees it so it doesn't get hit. I have to say
that I was really tempted to tell the lady that I would return the dog and
just take him home with me! I don't understand how anyone can let that
happen over and over when they live so close to a main road.

So, when I got home, I was really kicking myself for not taking the dog
with me. The lady that I was talking to was trying to tell me which house
it was so I could drive the dog home. I could have easily just taken him to
my house. His tag had a number to call and I think I should have given the
owners a scare or something by telling them he was hit or just not calling
about the dog for a few days (while he stayed at my house and let them
panic).

Paula...

Turn him in to Animal Control as a stray in the road but let them know
that if the owner doesn't claim him, you are willing to adopt him.
Around here, if you take the dog, it's stealing, but if you turn it in
to AC, you're covered. Plus, the owners get a wake-up call from the
AC officers who get the name and number off the tag and a fine to get
the dog out of the shelter.

MauiJNP...

Good idea, thanks.

karsan...

You ethier did not steal the dog what is the title of you post it is
still considered stealing that is all I going to say for now.