Mary Ann Stockdill of Leeds

I guess this question is directed mostly at Roy but if anyone else can help
then all the better.

I'm trying to trace my wife's ancestry and am finding it hard going since
she is a Wilson. I've managed to find her great grandfather Arthur Wilson in
the 1871 census of Armley, Leeds but there is no sign of his father. His
mother, Sarah Wilson is living with her sister - Mary Ann Stockdill who is
shown as a widow and HoH.

To move things forward (or rather backwards) I need to discover the maiden
name of the two women. If this Mary Ann Stockdill is part of Roy's extended
clan then perhaps he already knows the answer?

Details (from 1871, Armley) are :

Mary Ann Stockdill, Head, W, 32, Warper, Wortley, Yorks
Sarah Wilson, Sister, Mar, 25, Cloth Weaver, Armley, Yorks

There are also Children
William E(?) Stockdill aged 10

roy...

This is just a "holding" reply, Des, until I can have a moment to check out my files.
However, I am very familiar with this particular Stockdill family. Oddly enough, I've
spent a long time trying to connect them to my own and have not yet managed to do so. But
I've met descendants in America who came to one of our reunions.

If you give me a little time (and perhaps e-mail me a snail mail address) I can send you
chapter and verse on the Stockdills, but the Wilsons I am not so familiar with because,
of course, they married in. BTW, I think if you look closely at the census image you will
find that "Harvey W Stockdill" is actually HARRY W. Stockdill. His full name was Harry
Wilson Stockdill.

More later when I've looked at my data.

Des...

Many Thanks Roy.

It'd be great if you could confirm that Thomas Stockdill married Mary Ann

roy...

As you now know from my earlier messages, the marriage was at Leeds Register Office. Let
me know if you would like a copy of the certificate (and also the birth certificates of
the children).

I also looked at the 1861 census at 1837online to try and find Edwin Webster and the only
one I could see that fits (there were 4 Edwin Websters altogether but the others are too
young), was this one in the enumeration district of Hunslet.....

At Hill Top, parish of Armley, municipal ward of Bramley:-
Edwin WEBSTER, head, aged 45, woollen cloth weaver, born at Yorks, Beeston
Martha Webster, wife, 44, born Farnley
James Webster, son, 18, woollen cloth weaver, born Wortley
* Sarah Webster, dau, 16, woollen cloth weaver, born Armley
Emma Jane Webster, dau, 9, scholar, born Armley
Benjamin Webster, son, 6, scholar, born Armley
John Wade Webster, son 4, scholar, born Armley
Mark Webster, son, 2, born Leeds
Polly Webster, dau, 1, born Leeds

Sarah, aged 16, was probably the one who married Joshua Wilson in 1865 and whose age on
the 1871 census would fit. The fact that one of the sons had the middle name of WADE
suggests this might have been Martha's name and it would be worth looking for a marriage
of Edwin WEBSTER to Martha WADE.

The fact that the marriage certificate of Thomas Stockdill and Mary Ann Webster in 1859
shows Edwin Webster as being a publican doesn't quite fit. However, I have a strong
inclination that there MUST have been a connection with the John Webster who in 1861 was
apparently landlord of the Dusty Miller at 9 Swinegate and Mary Ann gave her residence as
Swinegate. Possibly John was her uncle and she was lodging with him. The link with a
John Stockdill at 7 Swinegate - who I feel sure was Thomas's uncle - is just too much of
a coincidence!

Roy Stockdill

"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about,
and that is not being talked about."

Oscar Wilde

Webster in Wortley.

My interest in the Stockdills really only extends to the problem of
establishing Arthur Wilson's mother's name - though I have no doubt that the
family is of great interest in its own right!!!

It's interesting you should mention an American connecion. My Wilon
father-in-law (who is following my attempts with great interest) seems to be
obsessed by a great (or possibly great-great) Uncle of his called John ??
who apparently travelled around the wild west and brought back several
elaborate blankets and a pistol. The only candidate I've been able to
identify so far is a John Wade Webster born 1857 Armley into a weaving
family who later became a railway carriage maker. It's a tall order, but if
anyone has come across a John W Webster in an American (and especially a
"Wild West") context then I'd love to hear from them. Of course, he probably
bought the blankets in Leeds Market!

mlou1173...

Hi Des......the 1880 U.S. census has a 22 year old JOHN WEBSTER, tin smith,
born England, living as a lodger with a family in Wisconsin (not exactly
the "Wild West")....but I suppose he could have traveled around before
returning to England.

mary lou

Des...

Thanks for that Mary Lou

I think it's unlikely to be the same man. My John W Webster is present on
the 1881 UK census (and the 1891 and 1901 censuses) so I don't believe he
stayed in the US, he just visited and travelled around. Your man's
occupation sounds like someone who is a more permenant resident.

I think stories of the Wild-West are probably over-done. Of course from a
European context, it's hard to get much more wild and west than Leeds anyway
;-)

I suspect the key to this story lies with the whereabouts of William Edwin
Stockdill who emigrated to the US and who could have been a close friend of

roy...

William Edwin STOCKDILL went to Pennsylvania and married Irene McCORKLE at Allegheny PA
on 13 June 1894. This marriage is on the IGI for North America.

They had three children, Thomas Stockdill who married Esther Barlow, David Stockdill who
married Maude Campbell and Elizabeth Stockdill who married Ira Smith. The two sons Thomas
and David had nine children between them and there are numerous descendants (at least 80
at the last count), mostly in Pennsylvania, I believe.

I met a few of them at our last reunion over there and my principal contact was Thomas
John Stockdill of West Mifflin PA, a grandson of William Edwin who was pushing 80 then
and may not still be alive. I have not heard from them for some time. I have numerous
snail mail addresses and may be able to dig out an e-mail address given time.

However, I can tell you for sure that William Edwin Stockdill married and settle in
Pennsylvania and most of his descendants are still there, as far as I know.

Actually, they are not related to me, well not as far as I know, despite having the same
surname. I've traced this Stockdill line back to Guiseley, near Bradford/Leeds, in the
1790s and they were at some stage Stockdales, like my family. It's probably a coincidence
that we both ended up as Stockdills. This particular family has died out in the Stockdill
surname in the UK but flourishes in America.

Des...

Many thanks once again Roy

It seems that the three Webster siblings Edwin Webster, Mary Ann Stockdill
and Sarah Wilson were very close:

In 1871 Mary and Sarah were sharing the same accommodation in Hill Top Road
with children William Edwin (10) and Harry Wilson Webster (5) along with
their cousin Arthur Wilson (2). Edwin Webster and his wife Martha were also
in Hill Top with their 4 children, including John Wade Webster (14). Mary is
widowed whilst Sarah is marked as married - but no sign of husband Joshua.

In 1881 Mary Stockdill and her brother John are at Numbers 7 & 8 Goodwin
Street Wortley. Sarah is a little further away at 15 Boyle St Bramley - does
anyone happen to know how close these addresses are? As you point out there
are another 3 Wilson children all with the middle initial 'C' but still no
sign of the elusive Joshua. Interestingly, Sarah is shown as "housekeeper"
in the relation column and married in the condition column - significant?
What is significant is that my father-in-law has no recollection of any
great uncles on his father's side - plus his grandfather Arthur Wilson named
his first son "Clifford" - could that be the "C"?

I've scoured BMD and UK/US censuses but I can't find hide nor hair of
Bertie, Fred or Walter "C" Wilson after the 1881 census. It's interesting
that you say that William Edwin Stockdill married in PA in 1894, this would
suggest he may have moved to the US before the 1891 census. Certainly there
is no sign of a William E Stockdill (or any common variants) born c1861 in
Leeds that I can find in the 1891 UK census. Strangely there is a 3 year old
William C Stockdill in Leeds living with his grandparents - is this yet
another tribute to an unknown Clifford?. Harry Wilson Stockdill is still in
Wortley with his wife and child (young Harold); he seems to have done ok -
he's a manager of a Worsted Depart'. Cousin John Wade Webster is also still
in Wortley with his wife Mary A and children (no middle C's). John W seems
to have married in 1882 (would you believe there are two marriages of John W
Webster to Mary A in 1882 Leeds??? - the one in Wortley to Pollard is most
probable). John W is living two doors away from James Webster (hand loom
weaver) who is probably an uncle.

But no sign of Sarah Wilson and her children - except of course for my
Arthur Wilson and his wife and their young son Clifford. It would seem
therefore that to Arthur's children, John Wade Webster may well have been
virtually an uncle - but was he the Uncle John that travelled the wild west
and brought back the blankets and the six-gun (my f-in-law assures me his
grandfather deactivated it!). I have a theory that Sarah and the middle C
children went to the US accompanied by John W Webster - possibly to visit or
stay with William E Stockdill in PA. Maybe Arthur went too, but both he and
John Webster eventually settled back in the Leeds area.

There are several Stockdills from PA listed in genesreunited, I'll get in
touch with them and see if they have any folk memories of Websters or
Wilsons. In the meantime, thanks once again for your valuable input.

Best Wishes
Des

Roy Stockdill

"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about,
and that is not being talked about."

Oscar Wilde

John Webster given their ages and relationship.

mlou1173...

Any idea when W.E. Stockdill emigrated to the U.S.?

mary lou

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roy...

Not precisely but it must have been some time between 1881 and 1894, since he
appears still living with his widowed mother in the census for Leeds in 1881, aged 20,
and married Irene B McCorkle at Allegheny PA on 13 June 1894 when he would have been 33.

I have already given Des this information.

Des...

Just to add a little more ....

Searching through Ancestry's US immigration records, I can find no perfect
matches for W E Stockdill (though I expect Roy would confirm that Stockdill
is not always transcribed correctly). One potential match is a William Stock
arriving at Phillidelphia on the 8 March 1887 aged 28. There are also some
possible Stockdales. But surely, if he did move to the US then there must be
a matching immigration record somewhere?

I did find a closer match for John W Webster. I have a John Webster from
Yorkshire arriving in New York on the 31 Dec 1888 aged 34 years. John Wade
Webster was born in 1856 so the age is out by a year or two. I'd be grateful
if anyone could give me a full transcription of his line in the original
image which I've put up here :-

Plus, if anyone has time, expertise and access, I'd really appreciate any
more potential candidates for William and John in immigration records.

mlou1173...

Hi Des.....the Ellis Island site has this one:

JOHN W. WEBSTER
Age 35
Last residence - Manchester
Engineer
Departed Liverpool & Queenstown on ship Etruria
Arrived New York on March 27, 1893
Destination - Boston
1 piece of luggage

No luck with Stockdill or Stockdale.

Des...

Thanks Mary Lou

That looks like an excellent fit.
The age is good (34/35), the middle name good, and the occupation fits in
well with someone describing himself as a "Railway Carriage Maker" in 1891.
I'm speculating of course, but a married engineer travelling alone with one
piece of luggage doesn't sound like someone who's emigrating - sounds more
like someone going on a business trip.

Graeme Wall...

That one piece of luggage could well have been a cabin trunk, which could
contain all his worldly posessions. It's rather larger than a suitcase.

Graeme Wall...

Anither point, the 'one piece of luggage' would, presumably. have referred to
luggage stored in the ship's hold for the crossing, it wouldn't have included

Parrotfish...

"Woollen Cloth Finisher" ?

Des...

could be..

any bags or cases taken in the cabin. How much of that was practical would
depend on what class of accomodation he could afford. Earlier in the century
(1849) when my Samuel Dawson emigrated, cabin luggage would have included
food for the voyage. Certainly Samuel appears to have taken everything with
him when he went.

Now, I know it's not exactly "West", but just how "Wild" was Boston in 1893
;-)

mlou1173...

Boston was most likely not considered "wild" in those days, in fact it was
more than likely considered one of our more "civilized" cities at that time.

Lesley Robertson...

In those days, how common would have it have been to travel with one
bag/trunk and have the rest follow later?
Lesley Robertson

I was thinking that perhaps he traveled over for William's wedding.

Des...

That's worth considering, though since the wedding wasn't until June 1894 it
sounds a little early even allowing for the speed of transport in those
days.

Charani...

Given the location of the wedding and the speed of travel, it may be
that a little sightseeing was incorporated as well. It's not an every
day/week/month/year sort of trip after all :))

And more seriously, would elaborately embroided blankets be common souvenirs
from Boston?

mlou1173...

I think I may have your answer......in 1893 the World's Fair was held in
Chicago. I see that there was a large Colombian exhibition there

Des...

would

have wanted to see while in the U.S. The elaborately embroidered blankets
could very well have been Colombian or even from our west. Perhaps the
America Indian traders had exhibitions at the Fair also. Chicago is not a
million miles from Boston or Pennsylvania and I'm sure they were having
special train expeditions to the Fair from all over.

Des...

Thanks for digging around on my behalf. Buying a few souvenirs at a Trade
Fair doesn't sound quite as romantic as acquiring them as part of a wild
west adventure. But it's probably nearer the mark!

Thanks again.

mary lou

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Thanks again
Des

mary lou

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Roy Stockdill

"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about,
and that is not being talked about."

Oscar Wilde

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Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!

Thanks again
Des

Roy Stockdill

"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about,
and that is not being talked about."

Oscar Wilde

Harvey W Stockdill aged 5

Mary Ann Stockdill of Leeds - maiden name?