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Is there a term for this relationship?
16 Jul 2006 10:08:18 -0700
soc.genealogy.britain
previous
snorkers...
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Sorry to be such a 'noob'
My wifes GG Grandfather 'John' married 'Ann' who was my friends GGG
Grandmother. They don't have a common ancestor because my friends GG
Grandfather was born illegitimate.
myths...
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If you are saying that Ann is not your wife's gggmother, and John is
not your friend's ggggmother - eg it was a second relationship for
both - the relationship is "step-". If John and Ann were gggparents
of your wife and Ann was ggggmother of your friend (John not being the
father of Ann's child who became your friend's gggparent), the
relationship is "half-".
Having determined the qualifier, I make it 3rd cousin once removed.
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I have a feeling we might be 2nd half-cousins, once removed - but I'm
sure there are experts around here who can give me a more definate
answer :-)
A. Gwilliam...
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I think this makes your friend your wife's third step-cousin, once
removed, and makes your wife your friend's fourth step-cousin, once
removed. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I've got that wrong!
Jenny M Benson...
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I haven't worked out the relationship in this case, but whatever it is
for one party it must be the same for the other! A pair of cousins may
be 3rd cousins once removed or 4th cousins once removed, but they can't
be one of each.
A. Gwilliam...
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That's something that I've never been sure of!
It doesn't really make sense that the description of the relationship
would be the same for each, since the nature of their relationship is
different from their respective points of view. Or is the logic that
you count down generations from the common ancestor until you meet the
first person you're interested in, and that's the basis for stating the
relationship between him or her and anyone else? If so, then it's an
even more lousy system than I'd realised!
Jenny M Benson...
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You start with two people who are siblings (therefore of the same
generation) and count down the generations until you reach the people
you are interested in. Down one generation is 1st cousins, 2
generations 2nd cousins and so on. Very logical I think.
A. Gwilliam...
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I agree that part is logical.
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If and when you get to the "interesting person" on one side and have to
go further (generation(s) to reach the other "interesting person" then
you start once removed (1 generation difference), twice removed (2
generations difference) etc. I think that is also very logical.
A. Gwilliam...
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This is where it falls apart, though!
Let's call the OP's wife "Gill" and his friend "Tom", and ignore the
step-relationship. If we're told that Gill and Tom are third cousins,
once removed, we cannot unambiguously identify the generation of the
common ancestor in relation to either; it could be one of Gill's g. g.
grandparents or one of her g. g. g. grandparents, and conversely it
could be one of Tom's g. g. grandparents or one of his g. g. g.
grandparents. Combine this with the lack of gender marking and you can
hopefully see why I said that this was a lousy system!
Robert G. Eldridge...
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No it's not lousy. It's just you have to use it correctly.
Two people can be cousins, 2nd cousins etc without the need to be
specific but when there is a removal in the description then a single
person is described as a second cousin once removed (or whatever) in
respect of the other person.
Therefore if you were told "that Gill and Tom are third cousins,
once removed" then you were not told correctly.
A. Gwilliam...
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Now my head hurts!
What you've said contradicts what others have said in this thread. So,
who's right?
Robert G. Eldridge...
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My apologies. I wasn't thinking straight in an attempt to see what you
were driving at. I now can.
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Charles Ellson...
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You count down from the common ancestor to the last generation which
has cousins in both branches to give you the "Nth cousin" bit, then in
the branch with remaining relatives you count how many more
generations are descended to reach the other person to get the "times
removed".
COMMON ANCESTOR
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sibling sibling
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1st cousin 1st cousin
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ditto, once removed
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Thanks all
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