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Longhand German Translation Needed
Fri, 2 Jun 2006 22:57:53 -0400
soc.genealogy.german
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Gary Kaucher...
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In 1912, at the age of 15, my grandfather was a cadet on the Grossherzogin
Elisabeth, a full rigged square masted German School ship. I recently
obtained a copy of his two page application to the school.
I can decipher and translate most of it, but my proficiency in German is not
intuitive enough to decipher the longhand German in the following 6
sections. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
grandfather's father, Karl Kaucher, in this one. We always thought he was a
Bernd Niemann...
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I gave it a second look and read now:
hat nach Angabe des Vaters ein Kind
errettet
Einst.(?) auf Gr E(?) erbeten, da Kästen(?) auf
Pr E [...] zu hoch. Bruder ist Ingenieur.
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Monteur (millwright or mechanic), possibly in a paper factory. Is there a
Bernd Niemann...
Gary Kaucher...
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Thank you ver much Bernd for your help.
Maybe this was a request to go on the ship Gr E (Grossherzogin Elisabeth)
instead of the newer ship Pr E F (Prinzessin Eitel Friedrich) because the Pr
E F was too expensive?
Bernd Niemann...
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I think that's it. Although I still read "Kästen" not "Kosten".
Maybe bad handwriting or my bad reading.
Have a nice day
Bernd from Germany
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Gary
Pennsylvania, US
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I read: Stand des Vaters: Monteur
There are no Umlaut-dots above the "u" but a line (as usual written)
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north German (the school was in Bremen) version of the word "Monteur" that
has an umlaut in the second syllable? Also does the word in parenthesis
refer to a section or area near the town of Niefern, or might it somehow
relate to the "Klammern" reference on line 1?
Bernd Niemann...
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it reads Karl Kaucher, Niefern b Pforzheim (Baden)
thats: Niefern near Pforzheim in the state of Baden
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one.
Bernd Niemann...
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the last tree words mean: Bruder ist Ingenieur
Klaus Beutel...
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I do read:
Hat nach Angabe des Vaters ein Kind
gerettet.
Einst. (Einstellung) auf Gr.B. erbeten, da Kästen (?) auf
Pr.E.Fr. zu hoch. Bruder ist Ingenieur.
Henning Boettcher...
Henning Boettcher...
Translation:
According to his father he has saved a child.
Applies for recruitment on Gr.E. because cases (?) on
Pr.E.Fr. are too high. Brother is an engineer.
Note:
It would really be interesting to find out the meaning of "Kästen"
in this case.
See footnote "+" on document picE1&2 page 1 below the name KAUCHER:
- first line: .....(?)
- second line: für Pr.E.Fr. geeignet (fit for Pr.E.Fr.)
and "+" sign on the end of the same page beside
"angenommen" (accepted) in document field
"Urteil der Annahme-Kommission"
(Judgement of the recruitment commission)
Gary Kaucher...
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Yes. I wonder if the word Kästen also has an another meaning when it comes
to
old sailing vessels. There were two Schulschiffen in 1912:
1) Grossherzogin Elisabeth or "Gr.E" Built around 1900
2) Prinzessin Eitel Friedrich or "Pr.E.Fr." Built around 1910
He was 15 years, 7-1/2 month old, and at 156cm, was not that tall. Maybe he
Klaus Beutel...
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No he was 160 cm tall; whereas, required only 156 cm
Gary Kaucher...
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I see. Thank you for the clarification. Here is something interesting. I
also have the applications from
two of my grandfather's friends, Adolf and Willy (see below). They all ended
up on the Grossherzogin Elisabeth
school ship. The height requirements are different for each of them. I would
expect different height requirements for
different weights. But it doesn't make sense when you compare my
grandfather Erwin with Adolf. Maybe the height
requirement was different for each ship (Prinzessin Eitel Friedrich and
Grossherzogin Elisabeth). Maybe
in theory Erwin met the physical requirements and "was fit" for the Pr.E.Fr,
but for some other reason (Kästen?)
he ended up on the Gr.E.
Erwin
verlangt werden
"Länge ohne Abfätze: 160cm 156cm
Gewicht ohne Kleidung: 42kg
Adolf
verlangt werden
"Länge ohne Abfätze: 167cm 154cm
Gewicht ohne Kleidung: 54kg
Willy
verlangt werden
"Länge ohne Abfätze: 174cm 160cm
Gewicht ohne Kleidung: 62.5kg
I wonder if there was some kind of "pecking order" between the older ship
and newer ship,
and that Kästen could be the German equivalent of caste? The reference to
his brother being
an engineer seemed odd.
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wasn't tall enough to reach
something (Kästen) on the "newer" Pr.E.Fr. The cadets were all between 14
and 16 years old, so they were
still growing. Height and weight must have been a constant consideration,
particulary when climbing in the masts.
In addition to physical height, can "zu hoch" also mean "too expensive"?
Any old German sailors out there that know what Kästen are?
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his swimming abilities here. Was he any good?
Bernd Niemann...
trying to "jam" in here, somehow modifying the word for "certificate".
Bernd Niemann...
bones"? - just a guess)
Bernd Niemann...
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keine Brüche oder Bruchanlage
I think that does not refer to broken bones, but to "Leistenbruch"
or "Hodenbruch" - sorry dont't know the English words for these.
Klaus Beutel...
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Bruch, Leistenbruch: Rupture in the groin
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teeth.
Bernd Niemann...
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I read: 2 fehlen 6(?) ... defekt
Klaus Beutel...
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2 fehlen, 6 sind teilweise defekt
(2 lost, 6 are partly defect)
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ist ein ganz gesunder junger Mann
(l.s.) gez Dr Schaefer
Bezirks(?) arzt
Klaus Beutel...
Bernd from Germany
Henning Boettcher...
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'Kästen' is plural for Kasten.
Kasten is a word for cupboard or closet.
'The cupboards on Pr E [....] are to high.'
'Bruder ist Ingenieur' means 'brother is engineer'.
Gary Kaucher...
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Bernd and Henning,
At 15 years old, he may not have been tall enough to reach the Kästen.
In his Einstellung it states:
"Länge ohne Abfätze: 160 cm 156 cm"
Either way he was not tall.
I wonder if the word "Kästen" has an additional meaning on old sailing
ships.
Maybe it's some part of the ship up high in the masts, where not being tall
enough
to reach it would be dangerous.
Gary Kaucher
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Thanks for the help.
Gary Kaucher
Klaus Beutel...
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Though I do know a bit about old sailing vessels, I don't find
any explanation for the word "Kästen" in this context.
Maybe the key to that question lies in the footnote of the line
that I cannot read:
Bernd Niemann...
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In that line I read:
falscher Er(?) satz +
not much help, I guess
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Richard van Schaik...
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Falscher platz? (Written in the wrong place?)
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Gary Kaucher...
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I expanded the two areas so they are easier to see. Here is the link
I can't figure out what the minus signs mean.
It looks like the word "Pfalz" in the first line, not sure. Maybe the DSV
(Deutsch Schulschiff Veriein), where I
got the documents will have some insight.
Gary Kaucher
Pennsylvania, US
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