Re: Charlemagne Line??

In a message dated 7/28/06 2:23:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, WJhonson@aol.com

<< Sure that's right. From Maud of Savoy you get to Henry the Fowler and
then
its just a few more steps to Charlemagne >>

Sorry
Maud of Savoy
Amadeus III, Count of Savoy d 1148 in Cyprus
Gisela of Burgundy - Humbert II, Count of Savoy d 1103
William, Count of Burgundy d 1087 - Stephanie
Renaud, Count of Burgundy d 1057 - Alice or Judith "of Normandy" d 1037
Otto William, Count of Burgundy d 1026 - Hermentrude of Roucy d 1003
Renaud of Roucy, Count of Rheims d 972/3 - Alberade of Lorraine
Gerberge, Duchess of Lorraine d 984 - Giselbert, Duke of Lorraine d 939
Henry the Fowler, HR Emperor d 936 - Maud of Ringleheim d 968

Todd A. Farmerie...

Might he be the closest known common ancestor to Affonso and his wife?
I say known because Henry, Count of Portugal (Affonso's father) and
Ramon, Count of Galicia (Maud's great-uncle, the brother of Gisela of
Burgundy, above) were kinsman, the relationship presumed to be through
the unknown wife of Henry of Burgundy, discussed previously in this
thread, and Stephanie the mother of Ramon and Gisela. Some have even
hypothesized that these two women were sisters, but that seems unlikely
as two of their children, (Duke Eudes Borrell and Sibylla - the actual
Sibylla mother of the Duke named in the charter that has been
misattributer to the mother of Eudes) who would then be first cousins,
married (and not in Spain, where that kind of thing was known to happen
from time to time).

Otto the Great of Saxony d 912 - Hedwige d 903

dau either of
Louis the German, King of the East Franks - Emma of Bavaria

Todd A. Farmerie...

I have never seen a bit of data to suggest that this version was
anything but a late invention, created to make Henry the Fowler a
'legitimate' succession right, where at the time none was needed (this
was a period in which a whole string of non-Carolingians would take or
be given royal titles).

OR
Henry of Thuringia d 886 - Ingeltrude of Friuli

Todd A. Farmerie...

This is more promissing, but still based on drawing a web of hypotheses
based on name usage.

either way a descentant of Charlemagne.

Is this line flawed also? :)

Todd A. Farmerie...

Of course! :) You left out option:

3) neither Louis nor Henry.

francisco.tavaresdealmeida...

So it seems. Siegfried R=F6sch makes Hedwige dau. of Henry, margrave of
Babenberg as you can see in Leo's Genealogics
without Charlemagne's ancestry.

In ROGLO she is called Edwige de la March with an ancestry to
Charlemagne:
1=2E Edwige de La March
2=2E Ingeltrude de Frioul (marr. to Henri de La March, duke of the
Austrasians, a different husband from yours)
3=2E Gisele
4=2E Louis I 'the Pious' emperor
5=2E Charlemagne
But there are not sources for nrs 1, 2 and 3 and I do not know the
"sorcerer" responsable.
If you want to see it go to ROGLO and search for Henri l'Oiseleur
(Henry the Fowler)

Btw Otto, Henry's father should be 'the Illustrious' ('des Erlauchte'
in german or 'l'Illustre' in french) or anything like that and not 'the
Great'.

I have 8 different lines to Charlemagne for Maud of Savoy but none
through Henry the Fowler.

Francisco
Portugal