Re: Complete Peerage Addition--MORTIMER

Wednesday, 7 June, 2006

Dear Paul,

Thanks for your post from this morning. This will help
resolve yet another link previously undetected, and likely also
assist in solving some other riddles (great and small).

One in particular, Douglas Richardson had brought up the issue
of a relationship between Katherine (de) Clifton and the daughters
of Sir Edward le Despenser in 2002 [1], which I subsequently
conjectured would be resolved by a proposed identification of
Joan, wife of Sir Richard de Weyland [2]. In fact this
relationship now appears to result from common descent from Sir
Richard de Braose (d. bef 18 June 1292) and his wife Alice le Rus,
as follows:

Sir Richard = Alice le Rus
de Braose I
_______I_________ _ _ _
I I
Constantine de Mortimer = Sibyl Mary = John de
of Attleborough, Norfolk I de de I Weyland
[b. ca. 1280; d. 1358] I Braose Braose I
____________________________I__________ I___
I I I I I
Constantine Sir Robert Eleanor William Richard
dvp 1355 de Mortimer = Adam canon of de Weyland
d. 1387 de Lincoln d. 1319
= Margery Clifton = Joan
I d. 1367 I
______________I I I
I __________________I_______ I
I I I I I
Thomas Adam Constantine Eleanor Cecily
dvp bef dvp [b.ca. 1329; = Sir John [b.ca.1319;
1387 d.bef. 1368] Mauteby =
= Mary =Catherine I Bartholomew
I de la Pole I de Burghersh
I I I [b.ca. 1328;
I I I d. 1369]
_I______________ I I I
I I I I I I
Sibyl I Margery John V Elizabeth
I Clifton de Burghersh
___I [b.ca.1353; [b.ca. 1342;
I d. 1389] d. 1402] =
CECILY I Edward le
DE MORTIMER I Despenser
_________I __________________I___
I I I I I
KATHERINE ANNE CECILY ELIZ. MARGARET
CLIFTON 'the sisters Despenser'

I will also note, the proposed identification of Joan, wife
of Sir Richard de Weyland evidently fails, as by my original
proposal and your identification of Sibyl de Braose, Joan would
have been 1st cousin to her husband Sir Richard de Weyland, a
relationship we would not expect to have been permitted between a
married couple of that time.

There is, of course, the possibility that Constantine de
Mortimer had another (earlier or later) wife, mother of Joan....?

Cheers,

John *

NOTES

[1] Douglas Richardson, Katherine Clifton>, SGM, 2 April 2002.

[2] J. Ravilious, Clifton>, SGM, 23 May 2002.

* John P. Ravilious