Re: Wife of Sir Robert de Roos, of Wark, Northumberland

Is there anything to indicate that the wife who survived Roger Bertram, and
went on to marry two further husbands, was the same wife to whom he was
married by 1241?

If not, then it hasn't been established that Sir Robert de Ros had a
daughter named Ida.
<<<

If I follow this correctly (and not withstanding my previous query to Doug's
construction, his answer was not convincing), then Doug's construction would

The Sir Robert de Ros who died ?1269 and of Wark on Tweed m1 Mary Longespee
and m2 Christine d of Robert Bertram and sister and (in her issue coh) of
Roger Bertram. This Roger Bertram wife being Ida dau of Sir Robert de Ros
(-?1269) by his m1 Mary Longespee.

Is this what Doug is implying (I'm not saying that this is not possible)?

Chris Phillips...

Doug is arguing that it was Sir Robert de Ros's elder son William who
married Christine Bertram, so Sir Robert's second marriage would be deleted.

Christine's father was also named Roger, and the younger Roger married a
daughter of Sir Robert de Ros at the same time as Sir Robert's son William
married a sister of Roger junior.

What I'm asking is if there is any evidence that this daughter of Sir Robert
de Ros was the same wife Ida who survived Roger Bertram junior. If not, the
onomastic indication that Sir Robert's may have been married to a Longespee
would be lost.

Chris Phillips

BTW there seems to be a divergence between CP Vol II p 162 and CP Vol XI p
120; The first states that Christine m1 NN de Penulbury (leaving Elias de P),
m2 Sir Robert de Ros of Wark, who d in 1275, but Vol XI p 120 states she m
the Robert de Ros who died in c1269, also Vol XI has Christine m1 Sir Robert de
Ros and m2 Robert de Penbury. From sub-note h p 120 Vol XI is more likely to
be correct.