Re: Ancestry of Sarah, wife of William Comyn

Wednesday, 7 December, 2005\

Hello All,

William Comyn, Earl of Buchan (d. 1233) was the ancestor of
the Comyn lords of Badenoch, and others, by his first wife Sarah,
known to date only as ' yr. da. and coh. of Robert FitzHugh '[1].

An additional reference has been found, which appears to
point further to a relationship between Sarah and the Morville
famiy which may have been present, but not clearly shown, in the
Pipe Roll entry:

' 543. (Norh') Sara uxor Willelmi Cumin uersus Emmam
de Norh' de placito terre per Ricardum
Morell'. Ad eundem. Affidauit. ' [2]

This involves a case brought by Sara, wife of William
Comyn (or 'Cumin') concerning lands in Northamptonshire, possibly
the same lands referred to in the Pipe Roll. Who Emma de
Northampton ("Emmam de Norh' " in the Curia Regis entry above)
was is unclear. At the time this case was brought, Roland, Lord
of Galloway (and husband of Elena, dau. of Richard de Morville
and heiress of her brother William) had just died in Northampton
on 19 December of the previous year (1200).

It is tempting to suggest, given the texts in hand, that Robert fitz
Hugh, father of Sara, was a son of Hugh de Morville, younger brother of Richard
de Morville. This would explain the Pipe Roll (1201-2) entry, which appears to
show the land of Sara, wife of William Comyn, as being a portion of the total
of the Northamptonshire lands of Richard de Morville claimed by Roland of
Galloway (25 marks out of a total of 500 assessed). Since Elena de Morville's
English lands were primarily in Northamptonshire, she may have been called
'Elena de Northampton', and she may well be the 'Emma' de Northampton of the CR
entry:

[NOTE: conjecture link shown thus: _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ]

Hugh de Morville = Beatrice de Beauchamp
_________________________I_________________
I I I
Richard de = Hawise de Hugh de Maud = William
Morville I Lancaster Morville de Vipont
d. 1189 I I I
_______I_______ I_ _ _ _ _ _ V
I I I
Elena William de Robert fitz
['Emma' ?] Morville Hugh
= Roland dsp 1196 d. bef 1201
of Galloway ___________I_______
d. 1200 I I I I
I Sarah
V = William Comyn
I
V

If correct, this would provide the hitherto unknown ancestry
of Sarah and her father Robert fitz Hugh.

Any and all relevant documentation, comment and criticism is
welcome as always.

Cheers,

John *

NOTES:

[1] CP XI:143 note (e), and Scots Peerage, I:505; the original
sources of information are Pipe Roll, 3 John, p. 183;
6 John, p. 140.

The text of the Pipe Roll, 3 John, has been rendered as
follows:

' #318. 1201-1202.
Northamptonshire:---Simon de Pateshulle renders his account.
New Oblations:---Rolland of Galloway owes 500 marks for having
a recognizance whether Richard de Moreville father of his wife
Elena, was seized of a knight's fee and pertinents in Basiath
for 15 days before the war began between king Henry the father
and king Henry the son. William Cumin accounts for 25 marks and
a palfrey for having to wife the younger daughter of Robert Fitz
Hugh, with a reasonable part of the frank tenement which was the
said Robert's. He has paid into the treasury 20 marks; and he
owes 5 marks and a palfrey. ' [ Pipe Rolls, 3 John, Rot. 13,
from Bain's Cal. Doc. Scot., courtesy MichaelAnne Guido.]

[2] Curia Regis Roll 5, mem. 26, from Stenton, ed., Pleas
Before the King or His Justices, 1198-1212 (London:
Bernard Quaritch, 1967), III:54. The text is from the
essoins of Michaelmas term, 1201.

* John P. Ravilious