Re: SP Addition: ancestry of Elizabeth de Caldcote (and Livingston of Kilsyth)

Friday, 5 May, 2006

Dear Doug,

The charter in question was allegedly dated 1434, as shown in
the following extract (see Freeman's website; the URL on Rootsweb's
"freepages" was in my earlier post):

" James of Douglas, second Lord of Dalkeith, by a Charter
dated 15th June 1434, granted the lands of Hartree in the
Barony of Kilbucho, resigned by James of Tuedy in 1389 as
above mentioned to Richard Brown, to be held by him and the
heirs of his marriage with "Elizabeth of Twedi", the
granddaughter [neptem] of Lord Dalkeith. This charter was
confirmed by James II on 12th March 1439-40. "

The chronology involved (between the 1372 marriage of James
Douglas 'the elder' to Agnes Dunbar, and of their grandson William
Livingston to Elizabeth de Caldcotis, BEFORE 12 Nov 1421) would not
readily permit Elizabeth de Caldcotis to be the granddaughter of
the younger James Douglas (d. 1441).

During this period, in Scotland, we do find relationships in
the 2nd and 3rd degree in dispensed marriages: besides the
Livingston-de Caldcotis marriage (as by my reconstruction), we

A. 'Egidie de Duglas quondam Henrici Soeuclar Militis relicte
vidue Glasguen.' , postnuptial dispensation for her marriage
to Alexander Stewart (related in the 3rd and 2nd degrees),
mandate issued at Rome, 29 Apr 1418 [Stuart, p 449 citing
'Martinus V. anno primo. 3 kal. Maii. 1418' ]

Elizabeth Mure = Robert II = 2) Euphemia of Ross
__________________I I__________
I I
Robert, Duke of Albany Sir William Douglas = Egidia
d. 1420 d. 1391 I Stewart
I I
Murdoch, Duke of Albany ____________I
I_________________ I
I I
2) Alexander Stewart = Egidia = 1) Sir Henry
Douglas Sinclair

B. Record of the supplication and dispensation for marriage of
Elizabeth Douglas to William Sinclair, dated at Rome, 12 Aug
1432:
' Dispensatio matrimonialis Cor.
Since William de Sancto Claro [Sinclair] and Elizabeth de
Douglas, damsel, Orkney diocese, not ignorant that they were
related on divers sides in second and third also in third
degrees of consanguinity...' [CSSR 1428-1432]

Joanna = Archibald Douglas = NN
_______I I_ _ _ _
I I
Archibald = Margaret Sir William Douglas = Egidia
Douglas I Stewart of Nithsdale I Stewart
I I
I Sir Henry Sinclair = Egidia Douglas
I___________ I
I I
Elizabeth Douglas = William Sinclair

In addition to the foregoing, there is a notable English
marriage (at least) of this period where the dispensation refers
to the partie being related " in the 3rd degree of kindred", but
also specifically states they were related in the 2nd and 3rd
degrees - that of Edward of Woodstock, "the Black Prince", and
Joan of Kent:

1362 CPL IV:29,
6 Id. Dec Regesta Vol. CCLII (1 Urban V)
Avignon
f. 62

' To Edward de Wydestok, prince of Aquitaine
and Wales, and Joan, countess of Kent. Decree
confirming the dispensation granted to them by
Innocent VI to intermarry, notwithstanding that
they were descended from a common stock in the
third and second degrees respectively, whereby
they are related in the third degree of
kindred, it having since come to their notice
that they are also related thereby in the
fourth degree. '