Re: Gilbert fitzReinfrid son and heir..Further..

<< It appears Hawsie/Helewise de Lancaster was delivered to ward ship in 1084
at her fathers death and given in marriage in 1189. If she was 20 at
marriage, then born 1169. Applying our 29 year average interval makes her father
William de Lancaster II approx b. 1140 and his father approx b. 1111. Continuing
to Goditha approx b. 1082 and on to Beatrice approx b. 1053 and lastly to Ivo
approx b. 1024. If she were 15 at her marriage, then Beatrice was approx b.
1058 and Ivo 1029. So she is bracketed between 1053 and 1058 plus or minus ??? >>

Sorry but you cannot apply an averaging technique to identify every possible
interval.
My own technique will hopefully demonstrate this.

Hawise was given in marriage by 1189.
She was the daughter of William of Lancaster, Lord of Kendal and Hawise
(Helawise) of Stuteville

This Helawise was married twice more to Hugh de Morville d 1202 and to
William FitzRanulph de Greystoke d 1209
By this last husband she was mother to Thomas de Greystoke b 1202/10. at
which time Helawise could not have been older then 47 thus b aft 1154

Hawise her daughter had to be born by 1185 since her father died in 1184.
However she could not have been born earlier than 1168 when her own mother, by
our reasoning in the last paragraph could have been no more then 13.

Thus Helewise of Stuteville was born 1155/68. And Hawise of Lancaster
1168/85.

Now William of Lancaster, Lord of Kendel d 1184 had to be at least 17 at the
birth of his daughter and so could not have been born later than 1168. His
own mother Gundred de Warenne did not marry William Lord of Kendel until at
least 1153 when her prior husband had died. Therefore William's own birth is
bound by 1153/68

My chronology *is* possible. There is no boundary stating that Hawise who
married Gilbert must have been an adult and in fact, since her wardship was
given, she could have been a mere baby for all we know. Her oldest known child
was born as late as 1200 per my database, so that does not help at all.

Are you suggesting that this William was not the son of Gundred?

Will Johnson