Re: Rootsweb WorldConnect

I'm a descendant of Puritans with a strong law-and-order streak,
what can I say?

I doubt "change your reaction" would be your response if someone
stole from you. I really don't see that I should get MY case jumped
when all I'm wanting is to make it a bit more difficult for a thief
to steal from me, and I see it as no different from locking my doors
and windows to make it difficult enough for a thief to get into my
house, or my truck, that he'll decide it's not worth the effort and
will move on. I really don't see why I should be criticized for not
wanting to become a victim while I DO want to assist others by
providing my information to those who will use it legitimately and
who will be kind and courteous enough to render proper credit to the
person who did the work.

I really can't see any of y'all wanting any less for yourselves,
either.

Karen Rhodes

"Karen Rhodes"

Dennis Lee Bieber...

Putting stuff on a web page is the equivalent of pinning it
up on a supermarket bulletin boards, with signs on the billboards
saying it is there....

Eagle...

That makes it sound like we request people to "Please Steal" when we
create a web page. Actually we're saying here is a source, please
observe sourcing protocol.

I'm beginning to think my web page should read, I have organized
more than 50 pages of facts, single-spaced, with sources, on
Sullivans in VA and NC up to about 1835. If you want to know what
they are please contact me and I will forward up to 10 of them.

Of course no one would contact me but I would have made a good faith
effort.

Hugh

Eagle@adelphia.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)

the_verminator...

There *is* another way- use aboville numbers with just names:

Queen Victoria
1. Princees Victoria, German Empress
1.1. Wilhelm II, German Emperor
2. Edward VII
2.1 George V
2.1.1 George VI
2.1.1.1.Queen Elizabeth II
etc

then include a note.....
* Note- Dates, Places, Sources available on request.
Anyone really interested will contact you- most namegatherers won't.

Dennis Lee Bieber...

I suspect that he's using a program running on the web-
server that dynamically generates image files based upon what the
user requested. It is not a case of uploading a bunch of pre-made
image files and selecting the correct one (unless you have a /huge/
server disk space allotment).

Eagle...

Thank you, I had no idea.

And I wouldn't consider even that the most secure -- if the
image is clear enough to be humanly readable without being annoying
(those "type the word shown to activate..." sites) there is a good
chance the image can be captured locally and fed to an OCR program.
The better OCR systems can produce documents retaining the layout of
text elements... From there it becomes a relatively simple, if
tedious, matter of opening the OCR'd text document next to a
genealogy program, and doing cut&paste of the available text. {and
if such person is really sloppy, they won't check/correct the OCR
errors -- so you now have someone with data full of typos that may
later be put out on the web to confuse everyone else looking}

Eagle...

I think that is overkill for my purposes. Subscription fee

Dennis Lee Bieber...

I posted that link to show what someone /could/ be using
to harvest anything you put up. I've not upgraded -- don't even
know if I installed OmniPage 8 on my current machine (the OCR that
came with my HP scanner has been sufficient)

companies are going to harvest and they have the equipment. I'm
just putting up a small part of my data for now - and nothing I link
to. I'll see where it appears. Not many individuals would buy the
above package - I might but I don't see it as cost effective.

I just want individuals to come back to my site so we can update
each other - if they copy everything they might not. Everyone
having a copy would defeat the purpose of having a central location
for all data for everyone - except for my frequent updating.

Dennis Lee Bieber...

Easiest way to get them to update on your site would be by
offering direct data input... But then you run into the situation
of poorly documented data tossed in just because someone has a
rumor... {Someday I'll get around undoing a merge done in my early
days -- when I was gathering anything I could find... I've got one
individual who seems to be a bigamist, a sailor, and alternating
between the wives, based upon the interleaving of the children birth
dates One in NA, one in Ireland, one in NA, etc...}

Eagle...

Thank you, Dennis - I have made my decision.

I'm going to have a web site that has a chrono listing of facts I
have researched and people have given me. It will be by state, year
and county and for Sullivans in VA to 1790 and NC to about 1840. -
currently about 50-60 pages, single spaced. It will be up for a
year - if it is well-received I'll continue to pay for the site. If
not I can drop it after a year. No trees will be posted.

All the facts are available but not in one place before. Years of
research by numerous people will be instantly available while a
viewer sits in his easy chair eating cookies. I will list my
sources and make updates available as they are sent to me by e-mail.

I will probably editorialize a bit - I hope to encourage honest,
thorough and accurate genealogy - I might address some theories and
some inaccuracies. I think I'll put a ring in my nose and let
viewers lead me to the future of the site - if any.

I appreciate everyone's help in making my decision.

Hugh

Eagle@roadrunner.com (J. Hugh Sullivan)

Hugh

Eagle@adelphia.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)

melsonr...

Hugh,

This seems to be a continuation of the discussion on
soc.gen.computing. As I said there, circling Robin Hood's barn
looking for a more satisfactory/satisfying solution to your publish
but protect desires has resulted in nothing more than a deepening
rut, largely because your choice is to publish with some risk that
somebody might harvest and misuse your information or not to publish
at all and avoid the risk.

The solutions put forward here and on s.g.c all say very much the
same thing: if you put your information on the web there's
currently no way to absolutely guarantee it will not be "stolen" and
misused. You can make it more difficult for the potential thief
through passwording, through unusual formats or through limiting
what's readily viewable and accessible. All such solutions involve
some degree of hoop-jumping on both sides, however, and you have to
decide which hoops and who jumps most. Which is to say, you have to
determine the degree of risk you're willing to accept and make your
decision based on that and what's presently feasible.

As you seem to have a military background, I'd suggest you approach
the problem as a "decision paper": state the problem, then examine
the possible solutions and their pros and cons. Your conclusion
should be as objective as possible and apparent from the problem
statement and discussion.

Eagle...

I'm not sure why this is giving you a problem, Bob. There are
several ways to avoid reading my posts on this type thread. I
certainly would use one if I already knew everything there was to
know on the subject.

Several possibilities have been mentioned. Even though I suspect
there is no way other than a password to avoid harvesting I want to
know more about the suggested possibilities.

And you last paragraph is interesting. You suggest I state the
problem, examine the solutions and draw a conclusion. That's
precisely what I am doing. I feel no compulsion to abide by your
time frame to conclude. I have decided on my method but people are
still responding to me and I'm not going to ignore them.

And military is correct - I enlisted as a boot seaman at age 17 and
retired 33 years later as 0-5. I was headed overseas in the summer
of 1945, the Japs heard I was coming so they surrendered. There may
have been other coincidental reasons.

Hugh

Eagle@adelphia.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)

Bob Melson

melsonr...

I came late to this discussion, so I must apologize for re-opening
healing wounds.

Unfortunately, there is no way to control what people do with
publicly posted information. As Denis Bieber pointed out, putting
your data on, e.g., WorldConnect is akin to posting it on a
supermarket bulletin board for all to see and use. What folks do
with your information, how they use it, whether or not they give due
credit to you for your work becomes a matter of individual ethics,
of which there seems a diminishing supply in today's world.

Those who know me from soc.genealogy.computing and alt.genealogy
know that I run my own genealogy webserver (apache + mysql +
phpgedview). Now, before y'all go trotting off to
rgmhome.homeunix.net, be forewarned that it's a by invitation site
and password protected at two levels: once to access the site and
once for full access to the genealogical data. And who do I invite?
Relatives, mostly, who are serious family researchers in my
estimation. This way, _I_ control who sees the fruits of my
research and that of the other participants. While I don't believe
I "own" the information on the site, I do exert some control over
what is seen and by whom. I am convinced this is, if not the only
way, the best way to handle the concerns I've seen expressed in this
thread.

If you would like to discuss this with me off-group, I'll happily
arrange for you to have guest access to the site and provide details
on my setup. Drop me a line at the reply-to address in the header.

Bob Melson

If you only want serious/responsible folks to see it, create
a book -- maybe find one of those print-on-demand companies to
handle it, and price it so that folks will understand that this is
not something done gratis... then post a link to where the book can
be bought -- but supply no online data itself.

With a book, you can include a preface stating how the
information should be sourced and strongly requesting that such
source credit be entered into their programs when using data from
the book.