|
Playtime for Spare PC's
17 May 2006 11:15:23 GMT
uk.people.silversurfers
previous
Jeff Gaines...
|
I know a couple/few people have got new PC's and still have the previous
one hanging around so...
and installed it on a spare PC. It's a very minimal Linux distro which
makes all the storage devices (HD, CD, USB etc.) available over the
network so ideal for bunging your old HD's in and using them for
storage/backup.
Aries...
|
I have a spare laptop that I rarely use these days and as I enjoy pla---
erm experimenting with putery type things I will download and install that
that later on today :)
|
Installation is a doddle, down-load the iso, burn it to a CD, boot from it
on the spare PC and install it to a HD (or in my case a USB memory stick)
- very easy install, it found all the h/w (including SATA drive) and just
worked. All you need to do then is tell it which network card to use and
what IP address to use and you're away. You administer it through a web
interface on any other PC on the network.
I'm still finding my way round it but I can see the HD's from my network
and read/write to them (read only for NTFS).
Looks interesting and may be a good use of a spare machine, certainly
cheaper than buying a NAS :-)
Jeff Gaines...
Tickettyboo...
|
LOL, sounds likes a good idea, if you know what all the collections of
letters are for a start!
Jeff Gaines...
|
OK
Tickettyboo...
PC = personal computer :-)
FreeNAS = the name of the software
Linux = a free operating system, very good and stable, powers about 80% of
the Internet
Linux distro = Linux distribution, one of the varieties of Linux
HD = Hard Drive/Disk
CD = Compact Disk
USB = Universal Serial Bus, a protocol for connecting things to a PC
SATA = Serial ATA, a fairly recent protocol for connecting HD's, easier to
us than the PATA (parallel ATA) protocol we've been using for a while now.
IP address = Internet Protocol address, the number that uniquely
identifies each PC on a network so they can talk to each other
NTFS = New Technology Filing System, a filing system introduced originally
with Windows NT, more robust and space efficient than older filing systems
like FAT (File Allocation Table)
NAS = Network Attached Storage, a hard disk (or several) connected
externally to a computer/network by a network cable instead of USB or
FireWire.
|
I know some of them, but its taken me years and I am still at the stage
where I know what the words are, but..
Loads of people in here who like to 'have a go' and a few lurkers too, I
am sure but maybe if you could explain in more baby steps and plain
english it would help? Otherwise its kinda aimed at them what know stuff
already?
Jeff Gaines...
|
FreeNAS is a cut down version of Linux that would enable you to use an
old/unused PC to connect to a network or existing PC and allow you to
easily use its hard disks to store things on.
How's that missus :-)))
Tickettyboo...
|
tickettyboo ta! LOL I didn't mean for you to type them all out, but
I will save my opinions about the phrase 'bunging your old HD's in 'for
another day LOL When I first started, my pc did not have a cd rewriter.
Having read others talking about these wondrous things that you could use
to back up your 'data' , I decided to plan against the day when i actually
has 'data' to back up Booquestions were asked and I was assured that
'they just slide in ' HUH! I opened the box without the aid of an adult,
took of the side of the pc ( that was a first) saw the myriad of cables
and weird things and then hijacked the nice young man from the Post Office
to fit it. Them wot used the phrase 'just slide in' had long and tedious
tellings off!
|
andon...
|
I think even Mrs On would understand that.
Wouldn't have a clue what it was about though
Mrs On gets confused if I send her mobile a txt message :-(
|
|
That's ok, there's always been 'levels' in here, but maybe someone would
want to move up a level and need a bit of help to do it :-)
|
Bryan Jones...
|
Many thanks for these detailed instructions which I have printed out.
I'll do what you say and take it slowly, step by step.
|
David C....
|
Erm.. Jeff.
Any chance you could rewrite the above in slightly less "techy"
English.
I do have a "spare" PC but apart from flogging it I've no idea what to
do with it!
As for networks, all my PC are now wireless but they don't talk to
each othe, ('cos I don't know how to setup a network!), when I want to
move data around I use portable hard drives.
Sorry, but as I get older..........
Aries...
Jeff Gaines...
|
When my daughter was 3 she asked me how old I was and I said '97' - and
pmj...
|
Which is a very good way of doing things!
:-)
I find that far too many people only begin to *think* about that
sort of thing, *after* it's too late!
:-(
It's far better to be aware of (at least a bit of) what's involved,
by having a look around & asking Questions, *before* things go wrong,
while everything's working fine, rather than waiting for some problem
& then not being able to make it Fixted, cos you're in a flap & a panic!
|
pmj...
|
They do!
But sometimes (especially with older PCs) you have to Unscrew
a few (2 or 3 or 4?0 Screws, so that it can Slide in & out...
& yes, you *also* have to Plug in the Cables - 2 of them, one for
the Power & one for the "Data" - & yes, recognising which is the
Power Cable & which is the "Data" Cable can be a bit intimidating,
if you don't know to expect a "Ribbon" Cable - but you really can't
get them mixed up! - The Plugs just won't fit in the wrong Hole!
Ali...
|
But the ribbon cable plug *can* be persuaded to fit in the right hole, but
the wrong way round! There's a key thingy to stop it, but brute force and
ignorance can find a way rond that.
|
|
pmj...
|
Nope, in the Computer World that "box" is actually called a "case"!
:-)
Or do you mean the (Cardboard?) Box that the CD Drive came in?
:-)
|
pmj...
|
Well, surely, if you've ever had an Xmas Presents, Opening the Box
the CD Drive came in isn't difficult?
:-)
|
pmj...
|
Yep, it *can* be a little biut offputting, the first time!!!
But most CD Drives do come with fairly good Instructions (& also
Pictures) saying which bit goes where.
|
pmj...
|
But hey!
Hang on a Mo!!!...
You're misrepresenting thinsg a bit there...
You forgot to mention the *next* CD Drive you fitted!
:-)
You did that OK, didn't you?
:-)
& you also sussed a way round the prob of it not having a long enough
(Data - Ribbon) Cable (or was it the prob of the cable not having
a 2nd Plug/Connector thingy on it?
You took a *different* PC apart & scrounged the Ribbon Cable from that,
didn't you?
I saw you do it, so don't try & deny it & pretend you ain't any good
with anything like that!
:-)
Like you say...
If you really want to get something done, or do something, you will
find a way to do it, one way or another.
:-)
|
she's always believed it!
All that FreeNAS does is make it easy to use a PC to keep/share data over
a network, so you could back up your data to it for instance.
Having a spare PC and a network is a good starting point :-)
By saying that your PC's are 'wireless' do you mean they are on a wireless
network or just that they have no wires hanging out of them???
Step 1 would be to get your network up and running (assuming you want to
do that), and there's plenty of advice here to get you going. If you're
interested then let us know:
How many PC's you have and if they have a network card or wireless network
card.
How you connect to the Internet (i.e. broadband, dial up etc.)
If you're on broadband is it cable or ADSL ('phone line)?
Do you have a router already?
Bryan Jones...
|
I'm one of 'em, so I'll second that motion.
I have my laptop wirelessly connected to my router but would like to
network it to my desktop, also wirelessly connected, my laptop runs
Windows XP Home, but my PC is still running Windows '98.
I've tried running the network set-up wizard but haven't been able to
get beyond the opening screens as I don't understand exactly what I have
to insert in the way of names etc.
Jeff Gaines...
|
Ali is our W98 networking wizard in here, hopefully he'll pop in with some
tips.
Ali...
|
Not many, as
a) I don't do wireless
b) It uses a hub, not a router. (A hub resends every packet to every
machine, a router only send to the proper destination,)
c) When I set the network up, it was all Windows 95 machines, as later
machines were added, I kept them compatible.
d) I can't remember *how* I set them up. I don't think I used a wizard
though.
Here's my tips:
Each machine needs a unique name - this name will appear in every email sent
from the machine, so keep it clean and sensible, and you may wish to make it
not obviously yours, or make it plainly yours.
Each machine needs a workgroup - these should all be the same. That's not
absolutely essential, but makes life easier.
Each machine needs to share at least one folder or device, or there will be
nothing to connect to. Again, not strictly true, but let's keep things
simple.
If two machines are linked successfully to the same router, there's only the
router stopping them talking to each other.
Wizards are not neccessary, they just make things easier (sometimes).
|
I have no problems networking with W2K, XP, Linux or OS X but W98 stumps
me every time :-)
I've got W98 on a spare PC, it can access the Internet fine but can it
communicate with the XP machines, can it heck!!!
Ali...
|
All I can say is my XP machines communicate fine with my 98/95 machines
(except for ignoring passwords - or was it not allowing passwords to be
entered?, and calling the machines by their description (as well as their
name)), but they were added to the network years later, and to the old
standards, with static IP addresses.
Jeff Gaines...
|
Many thanks, Ali :-)
Ali...
|
Is there an echo in here ... in here?
|
I went back to it this morning and discovered I was signing on as 'Jeff
Gaines' (I us a shortened name on the other machines) - amazing how
habit just let me put in a password and hit 'Enter' without reading the
name.
I have now set up a user with my normal name and I have 2 way access.
Ali...
|
That's interesting. All the machines on my network have diffent user names,
but *no* password - that's a policy decision by someone higher than me who
doesn't want to be bothered with passwords. (since they're not connected to
the internet, there's nothing very sensitive on them, and I have physical
control over all but one I didn't argue)
|
Does make me wonder how many times that has been the problem in the
past....
Ali...
|
Jeff Gaines...
|
Many thanks, Ali :-)
I went back to it this morning and discovered I was signing on as 'Jeff
Gaines' (I us a shortened name on the other machines) - amazing how
habit just let me put in a password and hit 'Enter' without reading the
name.
I have now set up a user with my normal name and I have 2 way access.
Does make me wonder how many times that has been the problem in the
past....
|
|
Flyiñg Ñuñ 2°°6 +...
|
I had a problem when netw*rking a m/c with XP with one with W98. The XP m/c
was connected to the internet through an ADSL modem, and everything seemed
fine until I discovered that I couldn't connect to certain URLs from the W98
m/c. Initial thoughts were that it was a F/W problem (there was one on
each m/c) but we couldn't discover what, despite several long nights in the
bikesheds . The way I got round it eventually was to put the ADSL modem in
the storage cupboard and purchase a cheap router from Ebuyer - now
everything is hunkydory. I only use one monitor, one keyboard, one mouse,
one speaker system, but two microphones and use a KVM switch to alternate
between m/cs. I can also use Real VNC to observe and control both pooter
displays in both directions. (W98 on XP display or XP on W98 display).
BoyPete...
|
I have no prob with XP/98SE networking wirelessly, but it was a pain when
Flyiñg Ñuñ 2°°6 +...
|
Mine are both cabled from the router and w*rk fine now.
|
cabled.
Bryan Jones...
|
Well that's reassuring anyway, and I feel I've made a start. All I need
now is some kind person to guide me through the network wizard set-up.
Obviously I have a wireless card in my laptop and a network card in my
desktop, which is connected to the router.
Jeff Gaines...
|
Just to summarise you have:
A laptop running XP Home wirelessly connected to a router.
A PC running Windows '98 wired to the router.
Since they can both see the Internet the complicated bit involving the
IP addresses on the machines must be OK so we can ignore that (unless
pmj...
|
Yep (BTW - can I join in here & add my Comments on *your* Comments?)
:-)
So he won't have to faff around Setting explicit IP Addresses on any
of the PCs?
Which is what can sometimes be needed & can make life awkward ,
complicated & Confuzzling.
All the Assigning of IP Adddresses to them is handled OK between the
Router & the PCs, using DHCP (Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol)
Jeff Gaines...
|
I don't like making assumptions but if 2 PC's can connect to the
Internet via the same router it seems to me they must both be using the
same IP address range so it's a complication that can be ignored.
pmj...
|
Yep.
Sounds like it!
:-)
That's a perfectly reasonable assumption to make, I reckon?
& if there *is* any prob, then that is a good pointer as to where
to start looking?
|
pmj...
|
Yep.
It's as well For anybody starting to Set up stuff like this) to be
aware of all that sort of thing, even if it doesn't necessarily mean
all that much at the mo?
When you know what *should* happen (& why) & what to expect,
it really does make thinsg easier to suss out, if things don't
always work right.
|
|
|
you have problems).
There are 4 steps in the easy route, and it will be easier to use what
you have on the XP machine and duplicate that on the W98 machine,
otherwise XP will lose all your carefully set up themes/menus etc.:
pmj...
|
Good point!
Setting up a New User Account can be a bit time consuming & fiddly,
can't it?
|
Use the same workgroup name on both machines
Use the same user name on both machines
Use the same password on both machines
pmj...
|
Which will prolly be the main stumbling block?
I know many people using w9x don't have a PassWord to logon to windoze
with & they often don't realise that they even have a "User Name"!
They do actually have a "User Name", even if they didn't explicitly
Set one up, when they Installed windoze & even if there are no other
"Users" Set up on the (w9x) machine.
Jeff Gaines...
|
I seem to remember there is an option somewhere in W98 to tell it how
you want to log on, but I couldn't find it while I was putting my post
together, let's see how Bryan gets on and whether or not we need to try
pmj...
|
Yep - but now that he's aware of it, surely that (in itself)
will be Helpful for him?
If nobody mentions those sort of things, then how is anybody expected
to know that there is something to be sorted out? (or checked)?
|
and find that.
|
|
Set up one or more shared folders on each machine
pmj...
|
Bearing in mind that WinXp will give various "Dire Warnings" about
the "Risk" of Sharing entire Drives (if you decide to Share the Root
of a Drive)
Jeff Gaines...
|
You snipped my reference to the warnings and your first born :-(
pmj...
|
Well, I only snipped that bit, (when I came across it later, as I
was working down through the Post writing my Reply), cos I wasn't
Replying directly to that bit (at that point).
:-)
|
|
|
In XP go to:
Control Panel > System > Computer Name Tab, make a note of the
workgroup name.
In W98 :
Right click on 'Network Neighborhood' and select 'Properties. from the
menu.
Click on the 'Identification' tab in the dialog that appears.
Make sure/change the Workgroup to be the same as the XP machine.
Click 'OK', you will be asked to reboot the machine.
pmj...
|
& *also* which may well be important) yo uwill usually be asked to
"Insert the windoze Installation CD" cos w9x ReLoads the Network
& TCP/IP stuff whenever you make a change like that.
Jeff Gaines...
|
You snipped my reference to being asked for the W98 CD :-(
pmj...
|
Same applies there!
:-)
The fact that I happened to mention something similar to you
(& happened to snip out the bits I wasn't replying directly to,
or about), doesn't make either your or my Comments any less valid,
surely?
:-)
In fact I think (& hope that others would see it the same way!)
that it *re-inforces* what we (are both) saying.
:-)
|
|
If you aren't expecting that, it can be a bit confuzzling - you
have to tell it what Drive to look in - & actually *have* an Install
CD! - (or tell it where the Folder containing the Installation (.CAB)
Files are.
The rest of those Instructions seem fine - Yep it can look complicated,
Jeff Gaines...
|
Yes, I had 1 x XP Home PC and 1 x W98 PC in front of me as I wrote it
so I hope the instructions are fine :-)
pmj...
|
LOL!
I wasn't suggesting (in any way at all!) that you didn't know what
you were talking about (if that's what you thought I meant by my
Comment)!
I was just saying that I had nothing further (or of any great help
or relevance) to Add & was thus Snipping the rest of the Quoted stuff
from my Reply & not making it any longer...
& anyway...
Surely, you know (& have experienced the way) that windoze *very often*
shows up different things on different Machines?
What happens on one particular PC (or Installation) doesn't always
happen (or not in the same way) on another Machine...
So, I think that it *is* useful for people to have more than one
Opinion/View/Comment - that way, it's possible for them (& us!)
to gradually learn what bits are likely to be the same (or similar)
& what bits are going to be different.
Many people seem to seriously expect to have rigid, "Step by Step"
Instructions showing *exactly* what they will see - but I *know* that
windoze isn't like that, you can only ever give *general* Instructions,
with allowances being made for differences between Systems.
& very often the particular procedure to follow will depend on
(various) other things & what choices have been made *previously* -
often for (or to do with) something (apparently) unrelated!
:-)
|
|
when written out like that, but when you've read through them, so you
know what to expect, it all begins to make sense, when you actually
do it!
:-)
|
After re-booting in W98 do:
Control Panel > Users and check if the user name is the same as on the
XP machine, if it is then select the name, click 'Set Password' and set
the password to be the same as the XP machine.
If it isn't then add a new user with the name you use to log on to the
XP machine and set the password the same as the XP machine. The default
settings will automatically copy all your current settings so you won't
have to re-create them.
Click 'OK' then log off and sign on using the XP user name and password.
Finally:
In XP Home
Open Explorer, right click on a folder you want to share, select
'Properties' then select the 'Sharing' tab.
You will get dire warnings about handing over your first born but click
on 'If you understand the risk...' then about half way down you may see
yet another warning (it's disappeared here) which you need to click and
then you'll see a check box 'Share This Folder On The Network' - tick
it and also 'Allow Network Users to Change my Files' then click 'OK'
In W98
Control Panel > Network, in the dialog that appears see if 'File and
Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks' is in the list at the top. If
not click 'Add', in the dialog that appears, high light 'Service',
click 'Add', select 'File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks',
click 'OK', you may be asked for your W98 CD. Then click 'File and
Print Sharing' and tick the 'I want to be able to give other access to
my files' and, if you have a printer on the W98 machine, 'I want to be
able to allow others to print to my printer(s).
Still in W98 open Explorer, right click on a folder you want to share,
select 'sharing', click 'Shared As', the default share name will be the
drive letter, set the access to 'full', click 'OK'.
Ali...
|
I reckon you shared the drive root:
the default share name for a folder is the first twelve characters of the
folder name, in uppercase.
Tip: Even with the drive root shared, sharing a folder you access
frequently saves navigating to it. For a folder deep in the hierarchy, this
can be worthwile even when accessing it from the machine it's on.
|
It may take Windows a few minutes to catch up but you should then be
able to see the XP shared folder from 'Network Neighborhood' on the
W98 machine's desktop and Explorer, and also the W98 shared folder from
'Network' in Explorer on the XP machine. In XP Explorer it should be in:
Network\Entire Network\Microsoft Windows Network\Whatever name you used
for the Workgroup.
I hope that doesn't look horribly complicated but I think you'll be OK
if you take it step by step, give it a try and let us know how it goes
:-)
|
Thanks for all the comments which have been read and noted.
|
|
|
andon...
|
Upgrade it to ME and it does but not well :-(
|
|
|
Bryan Jones...
|
Any information on comprehensible tutorials would be more than welcome.
Tickettyboo...
|
I am sure Jeff ( and others ) will help, they know a lot and are really
great at helping. In the meantime, try grouping for posts about it
in ups, you may find a starter there. LOL I usually do that and then come
back with my 'supplementary questions' :-)
|
|
We can guide you from there :-))
andon...
Jeff Gaines...
|
By 10 p.m. last night I'd forgotten exactly why I was doing what I was
trying to do, if you get my drift :-)
I was setting a machine up with varieties of DOS and decided if I
bunged W98 on then I could pull stuff off the network rather than use
floppies. W98 then became the obstacle and I lost sight of the
objective. I should have put XP or W2K on, that would have done it.
Never mind, I'm trying FreeNAS today :-))
|
|
Could you guide us to do it if we just stick
a USB Bluetooth into each PC?
Jeff Gaines...
|
Only as far as saying as it's Bluetooth it probably won't work, or will be
a pig to set up :-)
See, even my spell checker has never head of Bluetooth!
Aries...
|
I have two laptops wirelessly connected to my router, and a desktop
connected by cable. All three networked and sharing files :)
andon...
|
But is that wireless connection Bluetooth?
I have used Blue for ages for PDA's, Mobile phones. Never managed to
find enough time to get laptop to server for internet connection.
The router is ethernet cabled.
Aries...
|
Nonononono - I was just pointing out what I thought was the best way to
network several puters and that if I can do it at my ripe age then anyone
can ;)
|
|
|
|
|
|
David C.
|
|
|
