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[OT] Face value of stamps and the costs of posting
Tue, 06 Jun 2006 11:15:51 +0100
uk.people.silversurfers
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Will...
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Why does the Royal Mail have all these weird and wonderful values for
single stamps?
Chris Bacon...
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They pick random numbers out of a hat.
Perhaps you could ask them.
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dtren...
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1 2 5 10 20 50 =A31 - stock values to make up other amounts
9p - 2nd to 1st class supplement
rest - first and sometimes second weight steps for different classes of
mail, both inland and overseas, airmail and surface.
You can no longer stick stamps on postal orders BTW - they are now
Tony Polson...
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"Finally, there are stamps that are
intended for use with the issuing of Postal Orders, although that
application has been replaced in the last few weeks by the new printed
Postal Order"
Those words were in my posting that you replied to. Didn't you think
to read it before replying?
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printed on demand for the exact amount you want up to =A3250.
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I can't for the life of me see how the stamp values relate to any
usefulness based on the cost of sending a letter. But there must be
some sort of conection like this.
Dave Plowman (News)...
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Stamps are added to a postal order to give an exact amount - not just used
for postage.
Bob Eager...
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Not any more, they aren't.
The3rd Earl Of Derby...
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Explain?
Bob Eager...
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OK, some backward areas may still use stamps. But not for long. They've
brought in a system where all POs are individually printed...
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Twas only last week I seen a pensioner in front of me in the post office
asking for a postal order to the sum of...
12GBP and 36p it was made up of a ten and two pound postal orders with the
36p in stamps affixed to the two pound postal order.
dtren...
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It was not only last week - it must have been before (approx) 20 April.
Since then all postal orders are printed in the PO to the exact amount
you want.
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Can anyone work it out?
Tony Polson...
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Many years ago, someone working at Royal Mail won a substantial prize
for working out an optimised series of values that allowed the least
number of stamps to be used across the board. Today's stamps follow
the same principles that were established then.
You have made the error of looking only at the rates for first and
second class inland postage. The stamp values also cover standard
rates for overseas postage, plus Parcelforce.
Chris Bacon...
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Ah.... arcelfarce...
dtren...
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You can't use stamps for Parcelforce. That may well be a recent
development but you now just pay and get a receipt. A bar code goes on
the parcel by which it is tracked and accounted for and shows it has
been paid for - no postage label, no stamps. Parcelforce Worldwide are
about to introduce a similar system.
Bob Eager...
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But you can use stamps for Royal Mail Standard Parcels...
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In addition, there are other stamps that are not used singly, but in
combination with other stamps. Finally, there are stamps that are
intended for use with the issuing of Postal Orders, although that
application has been replaced in the last few weeks by the new printed
Postal Order. There used to be other transactions that needed stamps
of specific value(s) but I cannot recall what they were.
The number and values of stamps is less important than it used to be
because almost all postage is now applied at Post Office counters
using custom printed postage labels. Stamps are used almost entirely
by individuals at home and by businesses that are so small they cannot
justify owning a postal franking machine. Even then, they can buy
postage online and print out their own stamps.
Stocks of stamps carried in Post Office branches are therefore very
much lower than before.
Tony
(former Post Office proprietor)
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stamps I can get from my post office are as follows:
1 pence
2
5
9
10
20
37
42
44
49
50
72
Frederick Williams...
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A mathematician would choose 1, 2, 4, 8, ... pence! If a stamp's value
manatbandq...
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More likely someone who thinks computers are infallible would use a
binary system. The rest of us, well...
Frederick Williams...
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The use of such a system is quite independent of computers, their
infallibility (or otherwise), and what people think about them.
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Bob Eager...
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A binary system would be silly. You'd have to have stamps with a face
value of 0p and 1p.
manatbandq...
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Now you're being silly. You know what I meant.
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Frederick Williams...
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Good thinking batman!
50 (say) = 110010 = thruppence-worth of stamps
(presumably the 0p stamps are free)
but 7 = 111 also = thruppence-worth of stamps.
So are you saying that both 50p and 7p postage should actually cost 3p?
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R.C. Payne...
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I've got a whole load of 0p stamps here if you want them. I'll sell all
of them to you for the low price of only 25p.
Owain...
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That sounds like a pretty good deal - I can't see any others on Ebay so
they must be really, really rare.
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could be negated, say by sticking it on the back of the envelope instead
of the front, then 1, 3, 9, 27, ... pence would be logical!
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And thse pages is a list of charge bands for different weights of
first or second class post:
Mike Barnes...
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I keep 1st, 2nd, 5p, and 1p. Those suit my needs pretty well - mainly
letters, and some small packets up to about 200g.
With a spreadsheet it's easy to construct a table showing the values of
Mary Fisher...
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It's not actually all that difficult using your brain :-)
Mike Barnes...
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Using the brain method, you don't need to construct a table. However,
any table that you do construct is more likely to be correct with a
spreadsheet, and it's certainly easier to update when the rates change.
Mary Fisher...
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Oh come on! Tables don't need to be constructed when you add up the values
of stamps ...
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combinations of 1st and 2nd, from which I pick a convenient value at or
just below the target. Then I make up any difference with the 1p and 5p
Mary Fisher...
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Yes, but if you use a 2nd class stampo as part of a combination the whole
thing can be treated as second class :-(
Mike Barnes...
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Please explain.
Mary Fisher...
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Apparently there's a something on the stamps - I can't remember the words
but some smarty pants here will insert them. Photo something perhaps ... I
can't be bothered raking through the remaining grey cells :-)
If there are any stamps which display this 'code' on an envelope or packet
it will make the whole sum of the stamps, even if all the others are coded
as 1st class, be shunted into the 2nd class system.
david...
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Its a phosphur stripe.
Mary Fisher...
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That's the one! A phosphor strip, thanks :-)
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The rates will be more complicated from August where instead of just
the weight, the size will also determine the cost.
Mary Fisher...
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We always send the smallest pack we can so I doubt that we scould save
anythng but I'll be pleased if people stop sending huge envelopes with one
sheet of A4 in them. What a waste!
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At least, that's what I was told by Royal Mail.
Peter Masson...
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If you hold stamps up so that light is reflected off them you can detect a
narrow band on 2nd class, and a broad band on others. However AIUI if the
sorting machinery, which uses this band of whatever it is to turn envelopes
the right way up, detects one 2nd class stamp only it treats the item as 2nd
class, but if it detects a broad band, or more than one stamp, it treats it
as 1st class.
Charles Ellson...
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IIRC you're looking at the wrong bit on the 1st class stamp. Your
"broad band" is the space between the two bands, more easily seen if
you compare a strip of 1st class with a strip of 2nd class where the
former has a dull band down each side (or straddling two adjacent
stamps IYSWIM) and the latter has the dull band down the middle.
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Who am I to argue?
Mary
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Chris Hodges...
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Postie sees 2nd class stamp, treats as 2nd class despite other stamps.
Mary Fisher...
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I'd like to think so, but that's not what Royal Mail told me.
Mary
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Which is annoying because a 1st + a 2nd isn't much more than the cost of
1st for 60-100g and beats queueing in the PO, but often gets treated as 2nd.
Guy King...
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What I've found makes the biggest difference is printing the postcode
instead of hand writing it. Makes 2nd class letters arrive like 1st
class.
Helen Deborah Vecht...
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I believe the Royal Mail prefers Arial as a font.
Mary Fisher...
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Why do you believe that? It would be interesting to know what they prefer.
Peter Masson...
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From the 'Postal Address Book' (My copy is a bit out-of-date, but I don't
suppose they have changed this bit:
'Ideal fonts for our equipment are Courier, Courier New or Brougham. Other
fonts which have similar characteristics are Helvetica, Avant Garde or
Franklin Gothic as are Arial, Avalon and Frankfurt Gothic.'
Mary Fisher...
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I'll take your word for it, I wonder why they don't use those typefaces on
their own correspondence ...
Helen Deborah Vecht...
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ISTR they use Courier quite a bit.
I use Times NR cos I like it, even if it's not approved.
Mary Fisher...
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Mary
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They don't use it, in my experience. They use TNR, as I do.
Helen Deborah Vecht...
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I must have read and remembered it some time ago. (Sorry, I remember
facts better than sources.)
Ooooh look what I found from the Royal Mail's website!
ftp://ftp.royalmail.com/Downloads/public/ctf/rm/41721_RM_ClearAddCamp.pdf
Preferred fonts are on page 15 of this document and TNR does not appear!
I also use Times New Roman.
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Ross...
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Helvetica or similar, I think, although pretty much every business I
Mary Fisher...
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You got an Eguptian visa for £18?
I had to pay $50 for a WAIVER US visa :-(
Mary
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deal with seems to use Times New Roman or similar.
They also recommend leaving two spaces rather than one between the two
JAF...
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It's still only one space, just a bit bigger.
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parts of the postcode, but how many people (apart from me!) do that?
Patrick Hardlentil...
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Odd - aren't postcodes meant to be unambigious even with no space in
the middle?
Charles Ellson...
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Aren't there some areas where something along the lines of both e.g.
XX1 0XX and XX10 0XX are possible giving more opportunity for the OCR
machines (and then the sorter using the Mk1 eyeball) to get confused
if the gap isn't blatant ?
Patrick Hardlentil...
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Ah yes, that could be it. Thank you.
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Mary Fisher...
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Especially with the sound effects!
Mary
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Patrick Hardlentil...
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You may be on your own there.
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One Foot on the Platform...
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Dunno, but I always do mine with a regional accent. Every little helps.
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Mary Fisher...
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Guy King...
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stamps. Sometimes when feeling lazy I pick the next higher value and
waste a penny or two.
First
Second 0 1 2 3 4 5 6
0 0.00 0.32 0.64 0.96 1.28 1.60 1.92
1 0.23 0.55 0.87 1.19 1.51 1.83 2.15
2 0.46 0.78 1.10 1.42 1.74 2.06 2.38
3 0.69 1.01 1.33 1.65 1.97 2.29 2.61
4 0.92 1.24 1.56 1.88 2.20 2.52 2.84
5 1.15 1.47 1.79 2.11 2.43 2.75 3.07
6 1.38 1.70 2.02 2.34 2.66 2.98 3.30
(I'm amazed at how well that copied from Excel. One paste operation and
absolutely no editing required.)
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What is the connection?
The3rd Earl Of Derby...
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If your paying for something via a *Postal Order* and the value comes to
Andy Burns...
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Don't think I've used a PO in the last 30 years, presume they are barely
used these days?
John B...
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I haven't used a PO in years - however, I've used a DIPSY, a LA-LA and
a TINKY-WINKY. I've also used an ARNO and a TIBER.
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3.62GBP the stamps make up the *pence* difference as the PO are in GBP only
Peter King...
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Postal orders do not work like that anymore
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Sparks...
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While this thread is here, can someone tell me, if I have a load of 1st
class stamps, then the price of the 1st class service increases, do this
stamps still "work" as 1st class?
compuserf...
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Yes, they are still valid - provided they are marked as 1st and not
30p or whatever it is this week.
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Dave Liquorice...
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If they are NVI, ie marked "1st" not a monetary value yes they still work
as 1st class stamps.
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Helen Deborah Vecht...
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They will, yes.
Arwel Parry...
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Of course, soon after "1st" and "2nd" stamps were introduced, one of the
first rate changes involved actually reducing the cost of one of the
services by a penny!
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Mary Fisher...
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Yes, if they say 1st class and not the price. I always buy a load of 1st and
2nd class stamps when the cost is going to rise.
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Tony Polson...
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TheLastMinute...
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Don't forget that stamps not just used to inland items. The stamps
between 37p and 72p have specific uses thus:
37p 2nd 60g>100g
42p ROW Surface Letter 0>20g
44p Europe 0>20g
49p 1st 60g>100g
50p ROW Airmail 0>10g and 2nd 100g>150g
72p ROW Airmail 10>20g and ROW Surface Letter 20>60g
The other values (1p, 2p, 5p, 9p, 10p, 20p, =A31, =A31.50, =A32, =A33 &
=A35) are used to make up the other values for the various services e.g.
Recorded, Special, Airmail, Surface etc...
Don't forget though that the price structure for inland post will
change in August to take account of size, not just weight (e.g. it will
cost more to post a A4 letter than a A5 letter the same weight.)
Steve Firth...
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Someone please tell me this is a (bad) joke.
Dave Liquorice...
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Nope, they call it "Pricing in Proportion", comes in from 21st August
2006.
A "Letter" is no larger than 240 x 165 x 5 mm thick up to 100g.
A "Large Letter" is no larger than 353 x 250 x 25mm thick up to 750g.
If an item doesn't fit due to size or weight into the above it is a
"Packet".
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Mary Pegg...
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It's a bad joke.
Meanwhile:
Why should my standard-sized envelopes subsidises someone else's
over-sized ones anyway?
Steve Firth...
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Oh FFS, as if that's what's happening now and as if this isn'[t simply a
way to screw the customer over.
Charles Ellson...
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It discourages envelope sizes which often get thrown out by the
machinery and require manual handling or don't bundle up easily.
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Alistair Gunn...
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If only they'd also made it much more expensive to send really small
envelopes (eg: 2inch x 2inch) whilst they where at it.
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Willy Eckerslyke...
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That's Richmoud's sequence. It allows you to make any number you choose,
by using no more than three stamps.
Neil Sunderland...
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How can you make 17p with just three stamps? Is the 9 supposed to be
JAF...
an 8?
raden...
Chris Bacon...
Paul Ebbens...
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Erm 17p = 10 + 5 + 2 ??
Bob Mannix...
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We've moved on from there. You can't do 33p or 36p though - so there!
JAF...
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20+10+2+1
20+10+5+1
Why can't you?
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Peter Masson...
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That list doesn't include 1st and 2nd class stamps. You can do
33p = 1st class (32) + 1p
36p = 1st class (32) + 2p + 2p.
Mary Fisher...
Spider...
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Hey, big spender! :-)
Mary Fisher...
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You:
a) are not a Tyke, apparently
b) have never been poor
Mary
Spider...
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Why should you want to use 33 or 36p postage?
Bob Mannix...
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Because, depending on the scale of charges currently in force (which change
from time to time) a package might requie this postage, depending on its
Mary Fisher...
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But there aren't any in the current tariffs ...
Bob Mannix...
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Noooo but, as I said, the tariffs may change (over tens of years) but the
stamp denominations never need to so and can remain constant forever, even
if some combinations are not in use. The numbers printed will reflect usage,
that's all.
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weight. The use of a standard set of stamps from which any amount can be
made up from 3 removes the need to change the stamp denominations with
changes in charges.
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Owain...
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So the sequence is 1,2,5,9,10,20,32,37,42...
Does this mean that the next rise in First Class postage *must* be from
32 to 37, or does the whole sequence change every time the rates for 1st
and 2nd change?
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snipe...
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Only two days late; I bet you're a silver-surfer, ain'tcha, hmmm?
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Grumps...
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10 + 5 + 2
Neil Sunderland...
LSR...
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Neil - don't bother entering "Countdown" :-)
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*slaps forehead*
Neil Sunderland
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Neil Sunderland
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