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Multi-booting
Mon, 15 May 2006 16:11:55 +0100
uk.people.silversurfers
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David...
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Knowing just how much knowledge there is here [flatter, flatter] I
pmj...
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Well ,it's not just *knowledge* that you will find here!
:-)
It's also actual, *practical* experience of doing various things
like you are doing.
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Following the purchase of a new pooter with XP Home on it I took the old
pmj...
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Can you tell us what Make & Model this new PC is?
Different Manufacturers Set up their PCs in different ways, some make
it (relatively) easy to do all sorts of things & others make it much
more difficult.
& what (if anything) did you get with it, in the way of Recovery
& Installation CDs?
Or is all that sort of stuff just in a (possibly Hidden) Partition
on the Hard Disk?
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h/d from my old pc and installed it on the new pooter. The old c: drive
had w98SE on it and the drive is now relabelled as F: and is a slave to
pmj...
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Yep, as you have found, the actual Drive Letters that get assigned
by windoze wil ldepend on what Physical Hard Disks there are & what
Partitions (& types of Partition) the Hard Disk have.
Both WinXP & w9x do actually let you "Assign" Drive Letters, but when
you do that, it only applies to the Installation that you Assign them
in/from - another installation will have different Assignments
I've generally found taht it's usually better to suss out the way the
Drive Letters are worked out/Assigned by windoze & workk *within* that,
rather than trying to Re-Assign the Drive Letters yourself.
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the main disc.
I then partitioned the old disc to create G: and also installed linux
pmj...
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Did that Partitioning Delete the stuff on the Disk?
ore did you use a Partitioning *Re*Sizing Utility, so as to keep
the existing stuff?
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[be patient, I'm getting there]on the old drive.
pmj...
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Ah, OK, bringing Linux into the equation will add some more
interesting little wrinkles & gotchas to it all!
:-)
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Bram...
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Hiya David! Why don't you get yourself a spare computer to experiment
with...?
David...
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Umm, the Boss complains about the amount of time I spend on one pc. If
I had a second one 'cluttering up the room' I'd be looking at divorce
proceedings rather than a silver anniversary
Bram...
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Tell her the second one is for her
;-)
David...
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Hmmm. I quite like life actually
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You can fiddle about with partitioning and editing boot-loaders etc, and if
it all goes belly up then you can laugh about it all. Your main computer is
safe.
It's what I do. :-)
psst.... what flavour Linux is it..?
David...
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Ubuntu 5.1 [Breezy]
David...
I'm just learning it - I really wanted to see what it was like but could
well be convinced to move completely to it once I know it better.
Bram...
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I'm also a Linux Beginner. Just wish I had more time to spend on it.
Haven't tried Ubuntu, yet. Kubuntu, I have and I like but I like Mepis
David...
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Isn't it the same but Ubuntu uses Gnome?
but I like Mepis
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even better. Comes with everything you need. Flash, Quicktime, Real player.
It's ready to go!!
David...
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Its not one I've heard of. Big problem I'm having with Ubuntu is
pmj...
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Several of the Linux Magazines have given away a CD (or DVD)
with a "Live" (Bootable) Version of Mepis Linux on it, so you can
try it out, without having to Install it on your Hard Disk, if you
want to (Or you can Install it, in the normal way).
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compiling a driver for the winmodem. I'm following the instructions on
pmj...
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Very few Linux Distributions seem to come with Drivers for
"WinModems" - have you tried Mandrake/Mandriva?
David...
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No. I gather that most distros have some problems with winmodems and I
want to get one to work before I even think of trying others. Ubuntu is
based on debian and I went for it after reading some comments elsewhere
on the various merits of the different flavours
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the wiki but its a steep curve!
pmj...
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Is it *actually* a "WinModem"?
i.e. a Lucent Modem?
Or is it another Make (Conexant/Rockwell or similar)?
David...
Anyway, why bother with a (Dial Up) Modem?
Do you *really* want to have to use a Dial Up Connection?
David...
Why not use your (existing?) Broadband Connection/Router?
David...
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aahh yes, some of us dream of the time BB becomes available to us
wihtout having to go for various sat. type ways of connecting
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You can use that over an Ethernet Connection - even if it's just
between the existing PC (with the Internet Connection) & the Linux one.
Or am I reading what you said all wrong & it's actually an *ADSL*
(USB?) Modem that you are trying to get working with it (Installed
in the PC that is Running Linux) - Even so, I would still say why
bother?
Why not use your *existing* Internet Connection with it?
David...
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Internal modem that connect me to the net via dial up 'cos that is all
we have here.
The pc it is in is dual booting XP and Linux and I tend to boot first
into XP to go on-line and see if there are answers to my problems
anywhere, check mail and browse then reboot into Linux for a play until
I can get it to talk to the internet when I will quite possibly move
completely to it.
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Linux is good at connecting to other PCs, just not so good at having
Drivers for windoze-specific Hardware.
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pmj...
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Your Post brings to my mind, something I've often wondered about...
Is why people seem to spend loads of time, trouble & effort, saying
how terrible micro$oft (& windoze) is & trying to get *away* from
windoze (& the stuff that Runs on it), by Installing various Linux
Distributions & then they spend *even more* time trying to make it
more like (the loathsome?) windoze by finding & Installing & Setting
up & Running all the typical windoze type Applications?
Jeff Gaines...
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Well if you can suggest an alternative to a word processor,
spreadsheet, graphics app etc. I'd be happy to test it :-)
pmj...
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LOL!
I wasn't really talking about them!
:-)
Yes, of *course* things like Word Processors, SpeadSheets & Graphics
Applications should be (& are) available for loads of different
Operating Systems...
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If people need to do those sort of tasks they need those sort of apps
surely, doesn't matter which OS they are running. They're not typical
pmj...
Windows apps are they, they're just apps, I'm not sure that MS can
claim to have invented any of them. I've used them on a BBC, a RISC PC
pmj...
a Mac and a Linux box.
pmj...
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I was more talking about the things such as MacroMedia ShockWave
Flash & RealPlayer - & to a lesser extent Apple Quicktime - that
Bram mentioned.
Those first 2 were definitely made popular by being widely available
on windoze Machines (& Apple made their QuickTime available for
windoze, very early on) - so surely, it's *because* of their
popularity on windoze, that people (now) want to be able to Run them
on other Operating Systems?
With all (proprietory Formats & Applications they (the Manufacturers)
want to make them widely available, cos they want people to be
"locked in* to the *content* that those Formats can deliver.
There's no doubt about that.
With all this "Digital Media" stuff, the big firms don't really care
what the Format is, so lonng as they can get people to use (listen to
& watch) the (so-called) "Content" that they want to Serve up.
But that involves "Digital Rights Management", doesn't it?
Cos they want to be able to define who (& where & how many times)
the stuff can be Played.
Which does tend to go almost *directly* against the "Open Source"
ethos of things like Linux.
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Or Installing things that will Play (or work with) stuff made popular
by those (windoze) Applications.
Jeff Gaines...
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Are Flash, Quick Time and Real Player 'Windows' apps? There are
pmj...
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See my Comments above.
Apple QuickTime most definitely *isn't* "windoze-specific"!
(obviously?)
:-)
But if it wasn't available on windoze Machines it wouldn't be
anywhere near as popular as it is.
& both Flash & RealPlayer also aren't actually "windoze-specific"
But being available on windoze has made them popular.
They (Flash, RealPlayer & Apple QuickTime) are actually *competing*
with micro$oft, who are trying as hard as they can to get the Music
& Video Content Suppliers to use the .WMA (& .WMV) - windoze Media
Audio/Video Formats (which has more in the way of DRM available)
& they are *all* trying to build in DRM (Digital Rights Management)
into their formats, so they can be used by the Music & Video Suppliers.
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versions available for Windows but they're also available for other
pmj...
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Yep.
See my Comments above.
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OS's.
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Or finding a Linux Distribution that comes with those things.
Jeff Gaines...
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They *all* come with an incredible collection of apps, and you can
install them at the same time as the OS so once the OS is running the
apps are available for immediate use.
pmj...
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Except, possibly, the RealPlayer & (to a lesser extent?) the Apple
QuickTime stuff?
Hence Brams original Comment about things like Mepis? - Which *does*
actually come with things to Play RealPlayer.
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Am I missing something?
Jeff Gaines...
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I think so, unless I've missed your point :-))
pmj...
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Well, I was making several points!
:-)
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Bram...
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No. I think I must have missed something.
Could you please direct me to where it says that to enjoy internet
multimedia and streaming, etc, you have to Microsoft Windows?
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The boot manager [GRUB] now gives the option of booting to Linux, XP and
98 BUT as 98 is now on F: it won't boot it. Do I need to reinstall 98
pmj...
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Yep, that follows.
Linux can only tell the PC what *Partition* to Boot from, it can't
change the way whatever is on that Partition is nInstalled.
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to F: as it is looking for files on C: [where XP lives]?
pmj...
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Basically, yes.
That would be the simplest & most straightforwards way [*1]
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I'm a little fearful that windows will take over any reinstall and
attempt to write 98 to c: and screw up XP.
pmj...
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It's good to be wary about that sort of thing & to think about
what's involved (as you are) *before* you jump straight in!
:-)
Yes, w9x *will* trample all over the (Boot Sectors of the) Disks!
You should normally Install w9x *before* WinXP, cosm WinXP would
recognise the w9x Installation & Create a Boot Menu to offer the
Option of Booting into either of them, whereas the w9x Installation/
Setup Routinme doesn't know about WinXP & doesn't give that Option.
But if you Install w9x *after* WinXP, then yo ucan sort out the
Boot Files OK, using the WinXP Install Routine, or the WinXP Recovery
Console.
There are various Articles on the M$KB (micro$oft Knowledge Base)
explaining how to do that.
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The drives now read
hda c: - xp
hdb d: & e: are dvd drives
f: [was c: on old pc] - w98se and this won't run [ boot starts but
then gives up as it is looking for files on c:]
g: odds and sods of files
: linux
TIA for any advice.
pmj...
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I would be inclined to accept those Drive Letter Assignments
& Re-Install w9x on it, but during the Install make sure that
you choose the Option which lets you say what Drive/Partition
to Install it onto (bearing in mind that the w9x Install Routine
may well Label/Assign the Drive Letters differently again! [*1]
So make sure you definitely know which Partition is which (don't
rely on the Drive Letters - use the "Volume Label" &/or Size of them
to work out which is which.
Then, when W9x is Installed, you will find it has wiped out the Boot
Files for your WinXP Installation!
But it won't have actually wiped out all the other bits of it.
So...
All you have to do is to Re-Instate the WinXP Boot Files & it will
then Dual Boot between them both.
Jeff Gaines...
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This will probably wipe out GRUB as well so you'll lose your Linux
install.
David...
Do you have a floppy on the PC (or can you ad one)? If so before you do
David...
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Yes although old fashioned they are very useful
(or can you ad one)? If so before you do
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the above make a boot floppy from within Linux, that will enable you to
get back into Linux and, hopefully, re-instate GRUB.
David...
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As discussed in my other reply, I'm more inclined to either forget about
98 and just leave it there... hmmm, or maybe even put the whole of the
HD over to Linux. Time will tell.
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[*1]
When you do the W9x Installation, you can either do it by Booting
up off the Install CD, or by Running it from within windoze! (WinXP,
in this case). Some people prefer/recommend to do it from a Bootable
Install CD, but if you do it from within windoze, you get to Run the
first Part, which gives more in the way of various Options, to Choose
& Control what's what.
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