John #8

You just cost me J8!!!

I got envious and so I've ordered a new Intel BadAxe motherboard, E6600

pmj...

Oh!
Jeff, how come you didn't you get one of the new Apple Mac Pro's then?
They come with the new Intelk Core 2 Duo Processors, don't they?

& you can (if you want) Run windoze on them - you can either Set
them up as a Dual Boot System, using Apple's own Boot Camp thingy
& choose (at Boot time whether to Boot up into (from) the windoze
Partition or the Apple Mac OS X Partition, or use Parallels Desktop,

which Runs Windoze (natively) as a Virtual Machine - the Intel Core
2 Duo Processors (& the Motherboards in the Apples) support full
Virtualization (as opposed to the older form of Emulation) & it all
works really well.

I have been playing around with - Errr - sorry I mean testing,
evaluating & experimenting with - an Apple MacBook Pro 17 Inch
& we got it (M$ WinXP Pro) all Installed & Running OK *both* in
Boot Camp & also in the Parallels Virtual Machine.
:-)

Jeff Gaines...

I would have more fun getting one of my PC's running OSX I think :-)

pmj...

LOL!
Yep!...
I've been thinking that would be very good as well (so have many
other people) - there's a Development Project on the go with some
working Versions...

Have a look at:

&

& there are rumours (hopes?) that Apple might be including in the
next Release of OS X the ability for it to Run on non-Apple Hardware.

I had a look at the Apple store but wasn't sure what what what really.

pmj...

Yep.
I found that as well.

& I went to the Apple Store in Regent Street London last Week, in an
effort to try & get some decent Info & see what's what, but that place
just seems, basically, to be a glorified Internet Cafe!!!
:-(

Hundreds of BackPackers, Tourists & Students, all checking their
Hotmail Accounts on the Web Browsers on all the Apple MacBooks
& iMacs that they have on (working) Display.
:-(

It's difficult to tell what processor you're getting, they still refer to
speed and I've got used to the new designations.

pmj...

I think it will take the "Apple World" a little while to adjust to
the way Intel keep changing their Range of Processors so frequently!
In the past, the Processor Ranges that Apple have used have remained
relatively stable (unchanged) for quite a long time.

I don't need a full machine anyway, just mainboard, CPU and RAM. But in

pmj...

Yep, I guessed that's what you were doing.

reality it's going to be a Windows box so there's not much point in going
Apple.

Jeff Gaines...

The new PC may be powerful enough to run Virtual PC, I've always found it

pmj...

Ah...

Forget everything (bad) that you've ever heard (& experienced)
about the (Connectix, now micro$oft) "Virtual PC" Software - that
was actually more of an "Emulator", so yes, it was (relatively) slow...

But now (especially with the new Intel Processors, which support
*Native* Virtualization), there are things such as Parallels

& VMWare

which aren't "Emulators", but they make/use a Virtual Machine which
*directly* accesses the underlying Hardware (through the "HyperVisor"
Virtualization Layer), rather than trying to *Emulate* a whole Machine
& Processor.

As far as I can tell Parallels is the only one (other than the
M$ Virtual PC) that has Versions available to Run on both Apple
& windoze Host Operating Systems (they can all Run both windoze
& Linux (& MSDOS etc,) as the OS on *Guest* Machine.

slow in the past. But this will be my main PC, the development machine,
which means frequent re-installs. I will use the current main machine as
the play PC in the future.

pmj...

Ah!...
In that case you may well find that using something like Parallels
or VMWare would be *really* useful!!!
Anything that needs frequent Re-Installs is well suited to using
a Virtual Machine Environment (as well as just for "Playing around".

Firms such as VMWare (& Parallels) are really pushing the idea
(& the Software Industry is waking up to the idea) of using "Virtual
Machines, for all sorts of things, including (& especially?) Software
Development.

I'm currently bench-marking the existing PC, at least that will give me a
feel for relative power of the new one. I'm most interested in speed of
switching between apps.

pmj...

Yep, that's what makes a big difference to the actual *use* of a PC,
isn't it? - apart from the Number Crunching/Processing stuff, such as
Converting Media Files &/or Compiling Programs etc.

If you *do* get a chance to try out something like Parallels or VMWare,
I'd be interested to hear how well you find it runs & handles the stuff
you do on your PC.

Jeff Gaines...

Browsing their web sites now, will let you know :-)

pmj...

The VMWare *Player* is completely Free (it's about 29 MB Download)

But the Player doesn't let you actually *Create* Virtual Machines -
but you can Download one of the (Free) Pre-Made "Appliances" & use
that as the basis for Installing other stuff, or you can go to:

Where they have a Web-Based Configuration Utility, where you
specify the Virtual Machine that you want & it gives you the .VMX
(VM Definition) & .HDD (Hard Disk Image) File(s), or you can (if you
want), write your own - the .VMX File is just a Plain Text File.

VMWare *Server* is also available completely Free - but that's a
heavyweight Application (128 MB Download) & is prolly a bit over the
top for Personal use.

Parallels (Workstation) is available as a Free Download (18 MB), but
it's only a 15 Day Trial & you would need to keep on getting a New
Trial Activation Key for it, to keep it Running. (It's about 50 USD
to buy a permanent (non Time Limited) Activation Key)

M$ Virtual PC is also now completely Free, (19 MB Download) but
I think you may find that it Runs the Guest OS slightly slower than
Parallels &/or VMWare, cos it's more like an Emulator - but with
a fast Host Machine (& plenty of RAM) you may find it works OK.

M$ VPC is actually in some ways better for making & using Virtual
Machines for "Development" purposes, cos it has full "UnDo" Disk
Support & you can Save the Changes, for returning back to & using
later, or Discard them & Revert back to the original, or you can
"Commit" the changes to the (Virtual) Hard Disk & carry on.

Whereas with Parallels & VMWare (Player) you have to Copy (& keep
track of the different Versions of) the Virtual Hard Disk Files
yourself, if you want to Revert to an earlier Version of any Virtual
Machine.

Jeff Gaines...

I've been monitoring Crucial for a couple of weeks, the price changes
daily to follow the market! I would suspect demand is high at the moment,
I'll stick another 2GB in later when prices drop I think.

Jeff Gaines...

My last mobo was bought 18 months ago, and the one before 3 years ago,
looks like I'm on an 18 month cycle :-)

Core 2 Duo CPU and 2GB of Crucial memory, hope to receive it and put it
together at the weekend.

pmj...

Can I be nosy & ask how much the 2 GB of Crucial RAM cost?
I recently bought a pair of 1 GB PC3200 DDR2 DIMMs from Crucial
& they cost (for the pair) about 121 Quid (inc VAT & Free P&P)
I wondered if the price had changed much recently.

I you hadn't got your new PC I wouldn't have been tempted to spend the
money :-))

John #8...

_____________________

Nice solid processor, Jeff. Don't ever be envious of me.
My old pc was fine. I know this monster would be of use
to you but except for a few photos & general surfing I should
have kept the old pc. Good luck with your project.

pmj...

Well, I'm sure Jeff will have fun with it!!!
:-)

Cos I know he likes taking his PCs apart & changing things like
MotherBoards etc...

(With the Apples, which now have Intel Processors in them, you have
to buy the complete Machine - you can't swap & change the Motherboards
over to another sort).