Broadband T&Cs

I don't read them all and the below might be standard T&Cs for all. So has
anybody any idea what the software is,if it's *really *needed*, is it a
standard requirement and would you accept these T&Cs?

Tickettyboo...

If they are the T&Cs and I want broadband from that particular company
then yes I would agree. Mind you I wouldn't have read them . If I have

Rabbit...

Me neither,that's why I wasn't sure if it was *normal*

a connection that turns out to want me to install summat I don't want then
I will trip off elsewhere. If all the isps want me to do it then I would
have to live with it or do without BB.
Its way down my list of stuff that concerns me though

$irVivor & =?iso-8859-1?Q?=A7ire=DFird?=...

Not a chance Sandra, would not touch that with some one else's 10ft barge
pole, let alone my own.

Rabbit...

It's proof that hype followed by mass hysteria does jbex :-(

$irVivor & =?iso-8859-1?Q?=A7ire=DFird?=...

Neither hype nor hysteria Sandra, but then I wouldn't buy, rent, lease a
house, if the agreement insisted that I allow them to use someone else to
monitor how things were working and give them a key so they could 'pop in'
and fix it whenever they felt like it.

Jeff Gaines...

No!

Which ISP?

Rabbit...

Talk Talk and a friend of mine has just signed up for the *free for life*

andon...

But with a 5 gb per month limit
That is like one movie download and text news per month.
By the time their spyware tracker has done its bit there
prob wont be enough to even d/l a feature length film.

[1] BB.
[1] *Free for life* is IMHO misleading advertising.

5.6 In order to connect to the Broadband Service, we may require you to
install on your PC certain software belonging to a third party. We will

=?iso-8859-1?Q?=A7ire=DFird?= & $ir Vivor...

That's enough to say no way, no how.

Ali...

Fair enough, so long as it's the modem drivers.

Rabbit...

But the average *numpty* to whom this offer IMHO is aimed wouldn't know a
modem driver from anything else.

provide this software, without charge to you, in order to assist with your
initial installation (and continued connection) to our Broadband Service and
to diagnose any problems that you may face in this regard. You will be
required to enter a licence with us governing the use of this software.

Ali...

This *could* just be bikesheds-type software, that only runs when allowed;
and only for the duration of the problem-diagnosis and rectification
session.

Rabbit...

Agreed but if others are like my friend they will allow anything to run
because it *looks* official.

However, even though we may have provided this software to you we do not own
it and so this licence will also support the rights of the third party,
which owns the software. We consider that the use of this software is

Ali...

Fair enough, so long as the software owners aren't caliming any rights to
acess your machine.

Rabbit...

Which we don't know for sure :-(

necessary to deliver and enhance our customer service to you and so, if you
decide not to install this software, we may not be able to resolve any
installation and/or connection problems you may experience. In addition, we
will not be liable to you for any matter that may arise as a result of your
failure to do so. By installing this software you will also allow us access

Ali...

OK, they're not going to support you if you don't let them see what you're
doing.

to
your PC so that we can diagnose and fix any problems you have encountered
with your connection to the Service. You hereby authorise us to have

=?iso-8859-1?Q?=A7ire=DFird?= & $ir Vivor...

That would most definitely confirm it's an ISP that isn't worth
touching in any way shape or form!! The fact that they've put in an
aggregate liability clause shows they know they will have claims.

Which ISP is it?? IIRC NTL tried to do the same thing - or something
very similar.

Ali...

Again, OK if, AND ONLY IF, that access is under the direct control of the
computer user.

such remote access. You acknowledge that this paragraph is subject to clause
9.4 but that its provisions shall not affect your statutory rights.

9.4 Our aggregate liability, (other than for those circumstances covered by
clause 3.14 or 9.11) whether in contract or for negligence or breach of
statutory duty or otherwise, to you for any loss or damage of whatsoever
nature and howsoever caused shall be limited to and in no circumstances
shall exceed Ł1,000 for any one incident or series of related incidents.

Ali...

They want full access to mess around with your computer, but will only pay
a maximum of Ł1000 if they completely destroy all the valuable data on it,
and render it usesless?!!

The answer to your last question is NO.

As an aside, ow many people here have given full remote access to someone
they've never met, with no mention of compensation for foul-ups at all?

Tickettyboo...

Only remote access stuff I have seen mentioned in here is netmeeting.

Ali...

VNC and , I think, Skype, have also been mentioned.

Tickettyboo...

Oh dunno about VNC, but I thought Skype just did talking?

Ali...

VNC definitely does remote control. Skype, I thought I had read references
to using it for desktop sharing, but I could be wrong.

Whoever is remotely accessing can be stopped easily at the click of a
mouse, so its not what I would class as 'full access'.

Ali...

True, but only if the local user is aware of what is happening.

Tickettyboo...

aah, well , that was the very first thing that was pointed out to me when
I started using it :-)

Rabbit...

Oh I walked into that one :-)
Good point though I wonder if their software jbexes with a Mac.

Ali...

Presumably, they advertise the minimum spec Mac needed for their service.

Rabbit...

Advertise ? All I've seen advertised and what got my friend entangled was
the * free for life* I haven't read *all* the T&Cs but I presume *free for
life* doesn't mean quite what it reads to most people :-(
BTW her idea of a Mac is what you get at the Golden Arches :-)

Ali...

Would a helpdesk bother pointing that out? It would only make their job
harder.

People in here aren't ( I wouldn't have thought) a fair representation of
the majority of pc users. We have been reading about pc related stuff (

Rabbit...

But I know my friend and presumably other will just stick the disk/software
in and let it run.

Rabbit...

I'm thinking about somebody like my friend who isn't capable of making that
decision if an official looking thing pops up or asks for access.

Rabbit...

Unfortunately it's too late for my friend but I am hoping that this
discussion might make others think.

Rabbit...

Not me. The only person who has had remote access to my machine I've not
only met but trust implicitly.

Ali...

Before or after letting him loose on your pooter?

Rabbit...

Good point, I think I was in the bike sheds before I met him.

But anyway, one tends to trust a person one has conversed with in
newsgroups (the ones one does trust, that is) rather more than a faceless
helpdesk droid.

Rabbit...

I agree there.

the techy stuff) for quite some time, and even if we don't understand it
all, we know where to ask if we get problems.

Ali...

Very true.

I would guess that for a lot of pc owners, remote access would be viewed
as no different to someone they have never met ( maybe got their number
from the Yellow Pages) coming round to fix a pc, or taking it to a shop to
be fixed.
So, a fair percentage of pc owners may find the facility for their isp to
have remote access to diagnose and fix their connection probs a good thing

Ali...

Yes they would. Indeed I believe that XP comes with such a system 'Remote
Assistance' built-in.

The trouble is, TT's T&C's don't say what the scope of their software is,
nor apparently do they provide the required third-party licence for
inspection and consideration.

It's the lack of information that causes paranoia.

Tickettyboo...

Oh yes paranoia, getting all worked up before its obvious what is involved

Ali...

Trouble is, by the time it becomes obvious, it's sometimes too late.

. I rmember reading similar hoohah about winXp and the activation
thing when it first came out. Turned out to be a lot of fuss about nowt
much in the end :-) Still it kept a lot of people occupied while they
talked about it

?

I would have thought that for anyone who knows summat about their pootas
and perhaps dislike and distrust the idea of their isp having access,
there will be a workaround on the net within days. :-)

Ali...

I'm sure any technical issues can quickly be fixed. Legal ones may take
longer. It really depends on whether there really is spyware involved, or
just a contract covering the isp for all eventualities.

Tickettyboo...

I would hazard a guess that its the latter. The isps are damned if they do
and damned if they dont. Just read any isps internal forums and you will
see gozillions of folk moaning about it taking ages to fix a problem..and
often the prob is on the pc rather than with the connection. If someone
rings up they are expected ( yep! by me too) to automatically know what
techy level the caller is at, and to be able to fix the prob within a
couple of sentences.
We do rather tend to expect a lot of them, we are paying for an internet
connection and we expect ( and often get) loads of non connection related
help. Bit like paying the electricty board for the supply and then asking

Anita...

I know that on sky broadband which is attainable on line - they use
something called Kontiki software which has to be downloaded !

them how to fix the toaster LOL.